To think banning the burka

[hairytriangle]

Is a waste of time? If people want to wear it then they will. Let them be!

Well I'm going to leave my house wearing a black balaclava today...

It's my choice...

scanty if the mum is known to thjem they can tell its her whether in niqab or not
this lady had never seen me before at all in her life so how can the face prove if your mum or not

the Daily Mail have an online vote thingy on their homepage today. Currently 88% of voters say the burkha should be banned in the UK.

Perhaps we're not as tolerant as we like to think.

daily mail readers not really representative of the whole country are they? daily mail is always quite anti muslim

Actually, I think the Daily Mail and other right wing papers are probably more representative of the views of the country than, say the Guardian.

Yasmin Alibwhatshername in the Daily mail is writing that the tory lady has a damn cheek defending the burkha, its a hideous, woman negating evil garment. She doesnt want it banned but thinks this country should be allowed to make rules where and when its allowed, nurseries, airports, courts etc. Now to me, thats muddled thinking. She really hates it, thinks muslim women are conditioned into wearing it against their true free will, doesnt want it banned but just to carry on having endless discussions of where and when. She isnt really bringing anything constructive to the argument. But then, i dont think she ever does

I'm all for women wearing what they want. However, I don't think the burkha is a symbol of this at all. For me, as long as it is linked to Iran/Afghanistan/Saudi etc where women are stoned for not wearing it or for adultery I can never agree with the Burkha.

It does not symbolize freedom of choice it sybolises the ownership and control of women that is happenning on a adaily basis all over the world and it makes me sick.

People should be able to wear what they want.

Re Security at airports etc, if anything covering the face is a security issue, then people wearing burkas, hats, beards (?), balaclavas etc have a choice - go through the security we all go through, or don't go through security.

Be aware of the consequences of your actions.

I've not read more than the first page, I might do so later if there's time.

I believe people should have the right to wear or not wear what they want.

However,

"But to be honest women who wear the burka do not have any problem with women seeing their faces or hair. it is men they want to cover from. walk into a woman only wedding or party and your eyes will pop out at how extravagant the outfits and hairstyles are. they compete with each other sure, but not for the attention of men.

by covering their bodies or faces they are opting out of that competitiveness that men would have us do with each other, but the message isn't that they do not want to get to know you, but maybe they wouldn't talk much infront of your DPs or DHs. "

• that made me feel extremely sad. It's an extremely sexist attitude and implies these women (and the poster - 'that men would have us do?' wtf?) have a very unhealthy view of men.

And if I heard that a man wanted to talk to my husband, but not to me because I'm a woman, I'd be rather miffed if my husband still wanted to be friends with him.

...and regarding page three: maybe the woman talking audibly on the train was also worried about bombers, and was praying there wouldn't be one on her flight?

*plane

I back France on these issues - they are a secular conutry by law and therefore want to ban all religious symbols. I agree with this. We too are a secular country - no veils, no burkas, no fishes, no nothings.

Onagar I find that very, very hard to believe really. There were Muslim women on MN saying that they wore the burkha to prevent white men seeing them? . Give me the link please, not to a whole thread with 100s of posts but where it actually said that. I don't think anybody said that at all.

I wore my balaclava for two hours today.

It was a bad choice - it made me hot,
miserable and I couldn't talk to anyone properly.

The question I'd like to ask those who wear burkas; -

Are you sure CHOOSING a lifestyle that in actual fact is harmful to you, and making you absolutely miserable?

I saw a muslim teen girl today with a salwar kameez on, she looked absolutely beautiful, really glossy black hair flowing with indian gold jewellery and a wonderful face. How sad the other ones could not show this, trapped in a black cloth cage.

I'm not sure i would agree we are a secular country. I think with the crown as head it becomes a christian country. Cruxifixes are not banned (yet) albeit British Airways staff are not allowed them.

megapixels, without fixating on onagar's use of 'white', how do you feel about his point about men?

I think it's quite right to get fixated on Onagar's use of the word 'White' in his post. Many people know little about the burkha, and they would, quite rightly, feel offended and disgusted if it was for the reason of keeping away from a particular race.

I don't have any particular view on the point about men. Every woman has her own view of how much, or little, she is comfortable about exposing in the presence of other men. I have no such distinction generally, but if needed I would choose to expose more in front of a woman than a man. I didn't want any males present when I gave birth (except for dh obviously), that is my choice and what I am comfortable with. I think asking for a particular race to be excluded is quite another thing.

Hssn't the UK got a separate church and state? Apologies if not. If not however makes the point more pertinent in a way - a Christian country not a muslim country.

its nothing to do with white men
and btw some muslims are even white themselves, so white has nothing to do with anything

ub

^ video some sisters were interviewed in whitechapel by an mp whos against niqab, if you want to see people explaining about their niqab and happy to wear it

The idea of banning it doesn't sit right with me. I do think though that employers should have the right to require employees to remove it in certain circumstances (eg teachers).

Megapixel, of course it's not literally 'white'. I was trying to make a point there which seems to have gotten lost and using it like we used 'forrin' but never mind that that now.

In any case if you had kept reading I was bringing up the unpleasant sexist aspect in order to dismiss it as the least of the problems caused by it.

It is interesting though that you dismiss sexism (against men) as not worthy of consideration. I assume you would think sexism against women as vitally important?

Anyway it will be quietly banned eventually in most places because of the security aspect. They probably won't pass a law banning it, but will make it up to those who own the buildings. There will be so many places you can't go such as shops, banks, schools and public buildings that it will be impractical to go out.

If you want to sit at home and wear it then good luck to you. For people like myself it will be no loss since the wearers have no intention of interacting with me anyway.