Support group for those affected by someone else's drinking - thread 4

[pointythings]

I'm about to head out for the morning routine and given how active our thread has been I felt I had better provide a new one.

Link to the previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/5418536-support-group-for-those-affecteed-by-someone-elses-drinking-thread-3

Fortunately I was recording it. A straight hour, pretty much, of ranting about what’s wrong with me and why I make him behave the way he does. It’s almost impossible to describe to someone unless they’ve heard it.

@Fibblet

I'm afraid I must echo the others. I don't think this is a good idea. You'd be pretty much tying yourself to him via this hotel. A few things to consider;

Would you (and this friend) really want to be stuck running his hotel for who knows how long if DP relapses waiting for him to get back on the wagon? Who knows how long it would take him to sober up? If he does. And how many relapses before you've had enough?

Are you and this friend actually contemplating putting money into this and putting your names on legal documents as co-owners? Because you don't 'buy out' unless you've put money in. And you can't force a sale for a business if you are not an owner. I mean, why would you have to 'buy him out' if you never put any money in and if your names aren't on the business? And in the event you're 'on the paperwork' what will you do if he refuses to accept a buy out? Even if you had a written agreement, it would still be an hellacious legal battle.

And finally, do you really want to be an hotel owner if you should succeed in buying him out? Because there is no guarantee that you'll be able to sell it on and get your money back, is there?

I'm sorry to be so harsh, but I am worried for you. And I'm afraid you may have those rose-coloured glasses on that we've all been guilty of wearing at one time or another. Every one of us (I daresay) wants to believe so much and so have made a decision based on what our addict swears mean they 'never to touch another drop'. And I also daresay that each of us has lived to regret it.

Remember you don't have to set yourself on fire to keep him warm. Your primary, actually your only, consideration should be to keep yourself safe and your finances intact.

If you want to work at this hotel as an employee, fine. Quitting is easy. But if you are contemplating actually investing or having your name(s) on it, please, please see a solicitor (without DP) so you can lay everything out, including his drinking, and find out what your chances would be of walking away unscathed should the shit hit the hotel fan and you've invested and/or your name is on the business. Because I guarantee that if he starts drinking again, he'll be the first one to walk away from it.

Again, sorry for being so harsh.

Sorry to hear he was like that @LavenderFieldds but didn’t surprise me

you are going against him and he doesn’t like it

But don’t give up

is dd at school ? Can’t rem if it was you or someone else an I said to speak to school

is she a young 4 so starts sept or in reception

either way talk to school. Let them know what it going on and they can support you and dd

@LavenderFieldds

Oh, I believe you. I have ranting recordings of my DH, too. And you know what happens if you try to play them back to them? All that happens is you get accused of 'violating privacy' or 'illegally recording them' and even worse ranting. And this was after his denials of his rants and say "Go ahead then record me and prove it!". So save those recordings for the authorities and DA workers or anyone else he tries to convince that you are 'insane'.

I do think seeing a solicitor ASAP is a good idea. Also, since you now have a place to go, could you gather together a couple days clothing, meds, important paperwork etc for you and DC and take them there in case you have to leave quickly? One MNer who did this put them in a bin bag 'disguised' as items being taken to the charity shop. If you think your DH would want to see inside the bag, smuggle the non clothing items out separately a bit as a time. Switch to a larger handbag if you need to.

You can do this. It's scary, but you can do it

I’m absolutely not putting money in, or tying myself to it in any way. I said I’d help out as it’s something he’s always fancied.
I'm not going into it thinking everything’s going to be great but if nothing changes he’ll be dead soon so I’m not going to stop him.

@LavenderFieldds I second having a go bag, Women's Aid, all key documents and somewhere to go ready. And I repeat: do not hesitate to call the police if he escalates. They can turn so fast - mine did.

@pointythings do you mind telling me how it escalated fast? For various outing logistical reasons it’s not easy to leave quickly, so I’m looking at alternatives. The ‘safe house’ is there if I need it but would on be for a couple of days and as an emergency.

@Fibblet hugs to you too.

Essentially my husband was on notice to leave after ongoing intimidating behaviour towards my DC - he had all but the final paperwork done and was dragging his heels about it. I had a specialist child social worker helping me with the paperwork needed for an occupation order. Then he just flipped one night, drinking heavily, banging about, scaring the DC, so I went up and calmly asked him to calm down. Whereupon he started ranting at me in a way that was new and threatening to kill me. So I called the police via 999. They were there in minutes and took him away, and told me they would back me up re the occupation order.

He did come back the next day, but I refused to let him in - that was on police advice. Fortunately he went; I did pack him a bag of clothes etc.

He ended up in base lodgings (he was former USAF) and suddenly moved fast on the flat. He defo scared himself, he had a whole 3 weeks sober and I felt safe to help him move. Obviously it didn't last. I had some social services input, but they were genuinely great.

@pointythings I can see DH doing this. He’s suddenly ramped up now I’ve got serious about him leaving. Such a pain. It would be so much easier for everyone if we could just be civil.

I thought we were being civil. He had already conceded that I would get the (mortgage free) house in exchange for no maintenance payments and he got to keep all his (substantial) savings.

Then it all just flipped. I have no idea how the consent order would have turned out, we never got that far.

DH has history in flipping, but in the past it’s always been directed against himself. Pfffft. How did you manage all that, @pointythings ? Edited to say I mean emotionally, most of all.

Mine also escalated fast. He had been angry and drunk for a couple of months with escalating violence to me and inanimate objects He had an episode that in hindsight was borderline paranoid psychosis, hit me and was so angry. I called the police and he was arrested and bailed to not contact me or come near for 2 months. That gave me breathing space where I began to understand how fucked up things were. I was given an IDVA (support around domestic abuse) and started to think about my legal ducks. The police then decided to take no further action, and his bail conditions were removed. Three days later he turned up at the house unannounced drunk and smashed a window to gain access, I was there fortunately with a friend, and he was arrested again. A few days later I had a non molestation and occupation order in place (I was fortunate that I had a lawyer ready and money to just do it, but there are charities who will help with that process) and the police reopened the case. I have no idea if he would have been charged, the case was with the CPS when he died. He was due in court for drink driving that week.

My experience is that there is a system there to support you when it gets crazy but nothing to help before it gets to that point. In hindsight I wish I had sought more help and advice before this time. Maybe it would have made it less catastrophic.

Honestly? I managed it because there was nobody else to manage it. My mother was lost in her own spiral of alcohol misuse (which killed her in 2019) and although I did have supportive family, it was ultimately up to me to hold things together. The RL support group I went to (the same group I now run) kept me sane and gave me great support and advice. I opened up to police and social services and again was rewarded with great support. It just kept me more or less steady.

It also helped that my employer were brilliant. I've always worked in the NHS in a mental health Trust, and at exactly the right time, my Trust started offering an in depth mindfulness course, 8 weeks of a half day a week. My line manager had no hesitation in releasing me to do it, and it really helped me get through the moments when things threatened to get overwhelming.

Most of all it was my kids that kept me going. I had to be there for them, and they were so, so great. And still are. But again, honestly? I would say that it's only now that I'm recovered and able to think about him. I've mostly stopped dreaming about him too. It takes time.

@LavenderFieldds I didn't feel I could act until it became physical, but it was a mistake. Phone the police as soon as he starts ranting. Verbal abuse is abuse. Hitting tables while threatening to punch you in the face is abuse. Don't wait until he actually does it.

@Fibblet tell him if he can stay sober for six months or a year you'll think about it. He's not capable at the moment of organising himself never mind a hotel and when it ends in disaster he will blame you completely. It really isn't a wise move.

@Userccjlnhibibljn8 that sounds so hard

to give ex credit - he left with no issues - I think he thought I would forgive him again and would come back in a few weeks

I think his family - older kids and brother thought I would take him back again

they didn’t reliese how much I hid. Yes they knew he drank but not his abusive behaviour

tho again compared to what some of you have had to put up with , I’ve had it easy

and I had never said before I wanted a divorce. Where I did that thur in Feb 2yrs ago

Well I’ve had a brilliant morning. A new work venture, a new friend and some sunshine. It’s given me a glimpse of a future me without all his shit. So it’s onwards and upwards. I will be playing nice for a while whilst I put things in place. He’s being nice as long as I don’t challenge him, so I will be working in the background to establish a safe exit. Feeling some deep joy today. And it’s not a joy that’s dependent on him.

That's excellent, @LavenderFieldds . You've seen what you could have. You can't unsee that. I had that insight the summer of 2017 when I had given him the rehab or divorce ultimatum and when he walked out on our summer holiday in Devon. I think he expected me to backtrack. Instead I had 10 days of peace, happiness and fun with my DC and realised how much he was damaging our lives. I hope you continue to take strength from today.

Yes as long as they get their way they are happy @LavenderFieldds

i play it nice

so glad you felt joy !

@Fibblet Just be very careful to protect yourself - your hope and your heart and your wellbeing. A ‘project to help’ can so quickly become ‘the reason I relapsed’.

My Ex always had ‘something’ that was missing in his latest sobriety attempt. One relapse it was that he had gone back to work too soon, one relapse it was that he hadn’t gone back to work so was bored and he needed a project, another relapse it was that he needed to be busy but not with the stress of his work - so he did a building project - that time it wasn’t ‘enough’ as it didn’t give him structure. Another time, a new project, this project was too stressful and the cause of his relapse.

It’s never good idea to take on a demanding or stressful project in the early months of sobriety. However in Ex’s case I think he is searching for the mythical ‘perfect conditions’ in which sobriety is possible and /or easier. It’s never going to be easy. It’s hard work every day for a good chunk and that is boring and tedious and stressful. So each time he finds a new thing to blame for the relapse. I was always the constant! But definitely work/ no work/ wrong project/ too big project was a nice excuse too.

I only see it now that I am off the hamster wheel mind you. At the time, I too was searching for the perfect lasting sobriety conditions and running around like a headless chicken to try and contribute to those ‘perfect conditions’

@LavenderFieldds sounds like you are getting your ducks in a row!! Good for you .

Thanks, everyone. Going back to work a little has reminded me that I’m actually quite useful and everyone else except him seems to like me.

Well, he’s had a good think and decided not to go ahead with this venture anyway. I am relieved…. there are considerable other stresses going on at the moment and I said I’ll support him if he sobers up permanently first.