Support group for those affected by someone else's drinking - thread 4

[pointythings]

I'm about to head out for the morning routine and given how active our thread has been I felt I had better provide a new one.

Link to the previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/5418536-support-group-for-those-affecteed-by-someone-elses-drinking-thread-3

It’s been a fight to get him to 22 units. He won’t go lower. He is showing signs of withdrawal even on 22 and has some really awful days. January/Feb 2025 we gradually got him down to single units the first time he detoxed and then he just stopped. For a while.
He is suicidal and that hasn’t changed with or without booze.
in detox he will be on a raft of meds and they will decide if he comes home on any at the end.

The detox he is going to is one that will also work on mh issues too.

Although he is having weekly DBT sessions too.

My partner has an alcoholic brother and it looks like their father was at one time addicted to booze. Son also has adhd/autism (diagnosed as an adult after his life imploded at uni) and says the drink helps in all ways with the adhd. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I should add that we have got him to 22 by careful policing. He isn’t really left alone for long particularly as he has a drink around the hourly mark. The one time we had to take a relative to A and E (and left enough for 3 hours) he drank those then ordered 3 litres of vodka and 2 takeaways to be delivered. He only goes out when we take him, there are no local shops.
I am fully aware that this isn’t helpful in terms of his booze and him controlling himself but after so many hideous suicide attempts, this is where we are. It’s no life for any of us.

You do what you have to do @Hellodarknes55 to get you through it till being under the medical staff at rehab

Hello can I join? My DP is an alcoholic. 4 months ago we had a quit or I leave conversation and he promised he would.

That lasted 2 weeks then he's decided that not drinking at home but only drinking out is acceptable. This has now escalated and he's going on about going to the pub daily. It has always been that we go together and then apparently that's acceptable. I realise I have not helped the situation by going with him but he gets so angry if he doesn't get to go to the pub, he makes things difficult at home. There is definitely some controlling/nasty behaviour that makes me feel like I have no choice. Yesterday it escalated so he was going to go by himself whether I wanted to or not. He was then back to his horrible abusive behaviour when he was drunk, after he'd been to the pub.

I have been thinking about leaving for a long time but this has reinforced that feeling. It's so scary but nothing has changed and nothing will change.

I know my situation is not nearly as bad as everyone else's on here but I desperately need some support. Alcoholism is heart breaking and invades every part of your life, I feel for everyone in this situation.

Your situation isn't better or worse than anyone else's. You're here asking for help and that is all that matters.

I think you have a pretty clear head on your shoulders - you know that your DP isn't ready to acknowledge he is a problem drinker. It is now up to you to decide whether or not you hold the line on your quite or leave ultimatum. People are negative about ultimatums, but I am not - they are more about what you as the affected partner will do than about any change they can bring about for your alcoholic. So here you are now at that crossroads. What do you want? What can you realistically have? What is the gap between the two?

Once you have worked through that, you can start thinking about the practicalities - do you live together, how financially tied are you, can you leave and start over?

Moving on from an alcoholic is a bit like working through a to do list, although the items and the order of it can change quickly. Start the work, keep posting here, vent as much as you need to and welcome to the best thread series on Mumsnet.

Welcome @PhilMckrakin. I’m glad you have joined us to get the support that you need. There is no better or worse, just people in different stages of the life that comes with loving/ having loved an addict. Your life sounds very hard and tense, living on eggshells in fear of your partner’s anger is no way to live as I am sure you know. The only acceptable amount of abuse (in any of its forms) in a relationship is none.

Like @pointythings, I believe that ultimatums are not negative - they are about you setting a boundary of what you will accept for your own life. The addict still has choice and agency - they also get to choose whether your ultimatum is too much. The problem is that most of them hate it - they don’t want to feel the consequences for continuing in active addiction, they want everyone around them to make it possible for them to continuing to submit to the addiction rather than doing the really hard work of giving up and maintaining sobriety (and it is hard work, I have never dismissed that, the early days and weeks are an exhausting and constant battle).

I had several false starts at leaving my Ex. I stayed after relapse post rehab one, I stayed after relapse post rehab two, I left temporarily and came back after he rage quit rehab 3, I stayed even through the months where he was also addicted to coke and more. I accepted that relapse is part of the journey. After relapse after rehab four, where he rejected ever going back into rehab despite the fact that his relapse prevention plan had been immediate return to treatment, that was my beginning of the end and still had yet another false start. My red line was that I would leave if he refused to surrender to the treatment recommendation that was made by both a private psych and by his local drug and alcohol support services. He would dangle the carrot in front of me that maybe he would go and withdraw it again. He instead did a very ‘tick box’ exercise in my opinion of pretending to engage with a lower level of support than he clearly needs. This in my opinion is to try and emotionally blackmail his loved ones into not enforcing boundaries because ‘he is trying’ whereas actually he is just maintaining a life where he doesn’t have to give up really because he doesn’t fully accept he has to. Alongside a couple of very short lived home detoxes/ self detoxes.

so that was my ultimatum - change approach, long term rehab as recommended. He refused. Said I was being coercive and controlling like his first wife had been when she left him. I’m cool with that! It was as much an ultimatum for me as for him. I get to decide what my life looks like - I was prepared to be the partner of someone actively trying to quit by following the treatment advice given by two
unrekated experts and accept that maybe it involved future relapses. I was not prepared to be the partner of someone denying reality. He got to say no (and he did), and so I got to say no too. Nothing changes if nothing changes. He said no so I had to make the change and free myself and live my life. It’s not until you leave that you realise how hideous that previous life was either - once I had time to breathe, I realised how hideous my life had become, utterly consumed by his addiction and needs and a shell of my former self. I’m still shocked, angry, sad and worried at times, but I cannot describe the peace that putting myself first has brought me.

Sorry that is so long! I had a mutual friend get in touch yesterday to tell me how ex is doing (no change) and so he has been back in my head again - I needed to tell my story again as when I hear he is still doing badly it brings back to guilt so I need to remember why I left and how hard I tried (foolishly, because you can’t cure them) in the years leading up to it

Welcome @PhilMckrakin to the group no one wants to be in but as we are , we all know what you are going through

I also believe in ultimatums tho took me a while and the first one of no drinking he broke and after he started drinking and lying after 4mths or so - I kicked out for 3w and dh was so sorry. Back to aa. Back to seeing sponsor etc

he said how much he missed dd who was 5 then and wanted to be a better dad and husband etc

so I relented as no I didn’t went to be a single mum. We had just got married and I hoped stupidly that this was his one off and enough

but same a few months later and he just became too sneaky and it was obvious he drank but lied and then times I didn’t think he was drunk but he had topped self up and gas lighting me and then I wasn’t sure what mood he would be in and I’ve said before I didn’t reliese how much intros on egg shells till I didn’t

anyway on one of these threads prob 2 or 3 it says I had enough as came home and he was drunk at 330 and denied it then drank in front off dd then 6 almost 7 and something clicked in me

2yrs on and we are where we are

only you can decide if you have had enough

I don’t know if you have kids. If you don’t - then def don’t get preg as I will always have to be in ex life due to dd

or till he dies. Which he will one day

@PhilMckrakin

Welcome to the club no one wants to belong to, but here we all are.

I agree that ultimatums can be useful. But they have to be carried out if the boundary is crossed and the alcoholic/addict has to care enough. I didn't issue a specific ultimatum before I left, I just got fed up and left. I have issued an ultimatum since about coming back, but it hasn't done jack shit to make him actually stop. Plenty of promises, but nothing lasts over 24 hours.

4 months ago we had a quit or I leave conversation and he promised he would.

So now you have to decide whether to hold to your ultimatum or not. We won't tell you what to do. But you have to understand that if you do not, you have blunted your weapons. He now knows that you will threaten but you won't carry through. Again, that doesn't mean you have to leave, just be aware that going forward further ultimatums won't affect him. It will be a situation of leaving when you get fed up enough.

I realise I have not helped the situation by going with him but he gets so angry......There is definitely some controlling/nasty behaviour that makes me feel like I have no choice. Yesterday it escalated......He was then back to his horrible abusive behaviour when he was drunk....

DO NOT BLAME YOURSELF!!! What you are doing is what you feel you need to do in order to survive. But you need to acknowledge to yourself (if you haven't) that you are living in an abusive relationship.

You do have a choice; to stay or to leave. Leaving can take a lot of courage and it can be very scary. But it can be so worth it. I lived with a home full of turmoil, put up with verbal and emotional abuse, the house being turned into a shit tip, and spending 'our' money on alcohol. Now I am living in a calm, clean flat in peace, with my own finances that he can't touch. I am very lucky in that I have the financial means to support myself and there are no minor children. Your situation may be different. We can offer suggestions if you want to get out, but the decision is yours.

To quote Dr Maya Angelou: "You did then what you knew how to do, now that you know better, you'll do better". You'll know when you 'know better' and then you'll be able to 'do better'. It's on your timetable.

Seconding everything @AcrossthePond55 has said, and I would just like to add that life without an alcoholic in it is unimaginably better, happier, more peaceful.

I had DC (older teens) when it was all going down. It ended up with the police removing him from the family home after he threatened to kill me. Three days after he had left, I heard my DC1 singing in the shower - she never did that because he would yell at her about the noise. I nearly cried. It hardened my confidence that I had done the right thing. Leaving is hard. The aftermath is not - even when money is tight. Just that sense of being safe is enough.

Thank you for the replies. You are right I either need to follow through with the ultimatum or it's meaningless.

Honestly even if he did change I'm not sure I want to be in the relationship any more anyway. Too much has happened over too long. It's just so scary and overwhelming. I think my confidence and faith in my own ability to make decisions has been shattered.

We live together and have 3 children - 2 of which are over 18. We're not married and own the house 50/50.

I can just about afford to rent somewhere on my own I think. I need to go through my finances in more detail, although it won't be easy and money will very tight.

But I'm not sure how to get there or where to even start. I'm scared of even having the conversation or saying it out loud IRL. I am also scared of the impact it will have on my children.

I really appreciate the support, it has been eye opening having it reflected back at me.

Your children esp if teens /adults will know what’s going on

dd did and was 6 even tho I tried to hide /gloss over a lot

the things she told me later / like I went to Al anon and she hurt herself and went to him for a cuddle and he quickly hid a vodka bottle behind cushion that he was slurping and he said don’t tell mummy as she will be cross

putting her into a position 😡😡

or another time went to say goodnight - he was in the garden and shoving a vodka bottle in the shed 😢

she was too scared to tell me and didn’t till after I kicked him out

we are all scared @PhilMckrakin and no one wants to split up a family but I promise uou that you and kids will be much happier - life is peaceful and we have a happy house

You do the following BEFORE any 'conversations' take place.

Start with your finances. Figure what you have monthly, your income and your outgoings. Once you have that you'll know what you can afford as far as rent U utilities. Next, look at rental listings, figure what you can afford. This is what I did first thing once it became clear that things were really deteriorating with DH's drinking. The knowledge that I would be able to leave and afford my own little place did away with so many worries and gave me courage and confidence.

You aren't married so divorce isn't a 'thing'. It should be relatively easy to separate any joint finances. If there are joint finances you need to open an account in your sole name and direct your income into it. If there are joint savings you should be able to remove half. These should be timed for your leaving so as not to raise his suspicions and cause you unneeded 'grief'.

As far as the house, I would see a solicitor on that issue to be sure I knew legally where I stood. Especially important if one of you put more into the down payment or if there has been 'ring-fencing' or 'unequal contributions' as that might affect the equity split. You could also find out what it might cost one of you to buy the other out, if that's a possibility. It's also worth finding out what's involved and the cost if he decides to be a shit about it.

Now, I'm in the US and DH and I are married so this may not apply to you: my attorney advised me that as long as I was not living in our 'joint tenancy' home and was paying rent on my own place, I don't have to pay on the mortgage. You may want to find out about that.

Once you've done all the above, quietly, your ducks should be pretty much in a row and it's time to start applying for rentals. Open any bank accounts after you've found your new place to live. Then it's time for 'conversations'.

As far as your children, your 2 adult children are probably well aware of what's gone on. If DC3 is significantly younger, speak to your eldest 2 first as you'll be able to be more 'frank' with them. Tailor the conversation with DC3 to their level.

And honestly, your DC will be fine. They may or may not be upset depending on what they already know. But the days of divorce being 'a scandal and a shame' are long gone. Chances are your DC know just as many kids who live in single parent homes as who live in 2 parent homes. They'll be fine once the dust settles.

I will give you one more piece of advice. Your DP sounds like a real shit. I suggest you pack a 'go bag' with some clothes, medications, a bit of cash, and copies of all important documents, both for yourself and your DCs. If you can't hide them in the house, take them elsewhere if you can. Also, if there is anyone you can confide in IRL and trust them to keep your confidence, please confide in them.

So today 2yrs ago I found my limit and kicked db out. He denied drinking as usual. I found the bottle he ‘hid’ and it wasn’t there in the morning but was after school so new it was a new one

after denying it he just drank the remaining half a bottle neat in front of dd and I and I said that’s it - I can’t deal with this anymore more.

I had enough of lies and drinking and said we were over. I took dd and a bag and said when I come back tomorrow I don’t want him there.

to begin with I was in tears and wanted him back / if he would stop - but dh showed no remorse and still said was an old bottle. Then tried the. ‘It’s ok for you. You can drink’ - which I barely do

holiday was May that was paid for, so we went but he didn’t do anything with dd and he drank on holiday every day and got in a strop when I posted a pic on fb and in the corner of the table was a pint of beer

his aa friends queried it and he said was a shandy (lie) and one drink (another lie) and I just know he would never change and won’t give up drinking or lying

he did go back to aa but said it was a few days blip so again couldn’t be honest how much he drank

fast forward 2yrs and today he is still drinking. His health is worse due to booze

Still lying about it - we are half way through a divorce - he still says he loves me and can’t we try again

I’ve said no as still drinking and lying and be different if went to aa and stopped drinking /lying to everyone as he’s just lying to his self

he used to drink when has dd to stay at his and once I had proof I stopped any overnights - but they still wasn’t enough to make him stop

nothing will be enough till death. I know that sounds harsh but it’s true.

which makes things easier as I KNOW I did the right thing kicking him out - yes it was hard and I’ve said many times on here that I didn’t realise how much I trod on egg shells waiting to him to shout or get cross /angry over nothing as drunk and couldn’t control temper

dd 6 - was sad when we split - her family destroyed but she sadly realises and understands now why and has done for over a year - it’s sad that her childhood is like this but she says we have a happy home and no shouting

she told me after that he would often drink when I wasnt there and that he would say don’t tell mummy and was scared to tell me as she knew if she did , it would be the end of our family. This has made me so cross and sad that he used her like this.

now 2yrs on she happy. I’m happy tho also sad that he just couldn’t get his shit together and get sober for if not me - his kids or his self

so to anyone who is with someone who drinks - yes it’s hard to take that final step and end a marriage - we were together 12yrs but I had to do it not so much for me - but for my daughter who is the most precious thing in the world to me and as her mummy I need to protect her and keep her safe and happy - which she now is

@Penguinsandspaniels

......he still says he loves me and can’t we try again

DH keeps saying similar to me. I tell him that his love for me has never been the issue, his drinking is the issue. And as long as his love for drinking is more than his love for me I am staying right where I am.

Sorry I’ve not been around. Not well and feeling incredibly sorry for myself about my situation. I am distancing myself from ‘friends’ who know what’s going on. I am disappointed with many people who I feel have not been supportive. By supportive I mean a bit of TLC. Checking in regularly. Believe me I do not burden people, I am not that type. I feel desperately alone/lonely. It’s like grieving when the world around you is normal but there’s nothing normal in your life.

I just wanted to know is what I’m doing/feeling ‘normal’ under the circumstances. I feel it is just me against the world.

Just saying hello! Not well physically or mentally or both? I can’t see your previous posts so I’m not sure of your exact situation but as you are on here I guess it’s grim as grim can be!
I know exactly what you mean about telling people there’s a sense of relief at first but I think unless you’re living with it no one else can really put themselves in any of our shoes.
Do you want to say any more?
do you have any support at all?
coming from someone here who can never wear mascara again as I just cannot stop crying .
some of the wiser people will be along soon !!

@wouldratgerbeunknown I am physically run down (persistent cold/cold sores) and of course like everyone on here emotionally floored.

My DS is an addict. Personally I think he needs psychiatric input but he won’t do anything.

I guess I just wanted to know if the distancing is ‘normal’ because nothing else here is!! I can’t bear to see/hear people living their lives. I bear no grudge at all, I would just like some of that joy.

Please don’t think I’m not nice. I bloody am, I’m kind generous and loyal. I’m just full of self pity at the moment😔

oh god I really feel for you. I feel the same so sorry for myself and angry that I’m having to deal with this.
I think it’s not being able to look forward to anything and knowing nothing that matters to you is within your control . also I know we are not supposed to conceal it but I feel so ashamed and humiliated. I’m just weeping away writing this.
it doesn’t matter whether you are nice or not nobody would cope with what you’re going through
Has he ever had a mental health assessment? In my case the GP made an urgent referral to the community mental health team for my husband who did arrange an assessment very quickly. I thought they and the GP wouldn’t speak to me but they did . Possibly you’ve already been through all this?
re feeling unwell I completely understand that feeling of depletion it’s so exhausting that it must affect your immune system. Have you seen the Gp about yourself?
are you sleeping?

@Isthisit2025 Hi Honey, I am sorry that you're feeling so low but I'm glad you've told us and that we can be here for you.
You know we understand; all of us are in this horrible place so we know the bleakness you're feeling only too well.
I hope this doesn't sound trite but try and do something nice for yourself today, a little treat just for you, be it a stroll in the sunshine, a cuppa in the garden, a read of a couple of pages of a book you like, anything that will give you a few seconds of 'care'.
Every day is a struggle but all any of us can do is keep walking (slowly and painfully) forwards. Reach out to us if you want to; we're right here walking with you xx
P.S I've got the same physically; so many cold sores I look like I've covered my gob and nose in glue and plunged my head into a box of cornflakes - may have to dig out one of my covid masks!

I feel you pain and can join you. @Isthisit2025
i had some real ups and downs this weekend and decided I needed some proper support from the Dr. Have battled it all too long.
It was all made even more obvious when I went for a regular haircut on Monday and my lovely hairdresser asked me what the hell I had done to my hair? She couldn’t do my normal haircut as it’s all gone so thin. Stress has obliterated it.
So I am now medicated and angry.
Angry that the model for dealing with a suicidal alcoholic in my area is to leave the family to devastate themselves taking care of him for months whilst we wait for the detox.
I know we could kick him out. Maybe that would be easier if he wasn’t our child.
I guess people will say it’s our own fault.

I also have really struggled to stay in contact with friends. Most don’t get it at all and it’s so tiring explaining yourself yet again that I am starting to give up.
I have wished so many times that he had something people feel sympathy about (like cancer) awful to prefer THAT!
Try to take care of yourself. Easier said than done I know. Xx

@Isthisit2025 This is going to sound a bit muddled, and it must be so much harder when the alcoholic is your child. But, as others have said, self-care is vital. Joy might be too much to hope for at the moment, but moments of calm are necessary -whether that's a walk in the sunshine, a bubble bath, a trip out for a coffee with a friend. You're right, people who haven't been there can't really understand what it is like, and really, we wouldn't want them to, as we're all nice people and wouldn't wish an alcoholic loved one on our worst enemies. However, it's good for us to spend time with our close friends and maybe even talk about other things. Our lives can become so dominated by the alcoholic's wants and needs, and we often become ill with the stress of it all, but sacrificing health and happiness won't change the alcoholic's outcome, so for our own sake and our other loved ones, we need to try to take the focus off them sometimes and think about ourselves and our other relationships.

@wouldratgerbeunknown I am relieved to know that my feelings are ‘normal’ when actually none of this is. It is hell on Earth. I really do echo all you say. I am trying so hard to function through the days. Work/looking after grandchildren which uses up all of my energy resources. Trying to book a holiday with my partner, yet having this fear of foreboding that something will happen before/during, and why oh why am I even considering something that might just be good for me.

We went to the GP sometime last year. They referred him to psychiatry as he'd said he had thought about suicide. They contacted him fairly quickly but discharged him as he never got back to them! He definitely needs psychiatric input IMO.

I am constantly on edge. Constantly.

I haven’t been to the GP about myself yet. I seriously considered it on Monday to get signed off. Sleeping is not good at all. I am just keeping going because that’s what I do.

Thank you for your message. I wish you didn’t feel like I do and vice versa. It’s rubbish.

@zeroclucksgiven You know I do try to have some ‘me’ time however brief during my day. For those few moments that respite is like nectar, I can feel it, taste it. It's a wonderful freedom from my awful thoughts.

Thanks for walking with me and holding my hand. The cold sore description did bring a smile to my face so thanks for that too!

@Hellodarknes55 It’s that realisation that you can’t ’keep going’ and maybe you should get some help yourself, and that’s coming true for me at the moment. It’s funny you mention your hair. Mine is in such bad condition, like you say really thin and falling out in handfuls.

Help (professional) is really in short supply isn’t it? I’ve not been impressed thus far. Like you I wish I could just kick him out, I can’t. That’s it. I just can’t. And it’s not our fault either..she says as she looks for every possible parent misdemeanour over his lifetime.

Friends do not understand. Nobody understands unless you’ve experienced it. I think I just want a ‘check in’ that’s all. I’m really down on everyone at the moment.

Thanks for the message. Look after yourself too x