Support group for those affected by someone else's drinking - thread 4

[pointythings]

I'm about to head out for the morning routine and given how active our thread has been I felt I had better provide a new one.

Link to the previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/5418536-support-group-for-those-affecteed-by-someone-elses-drinking-thread-3

@BMW6 That’s how I feel most of the time, like I’m going insane. I cannot even describe my feelings/how I feel. I can hear myself asking him something but in my head I’m saying “remember he will lie” I’m looking at my DS but it’s not him, I am speaking to an addict. I think this contradiction makes me feel I am going mad. I am deeply deeply unhappy and incredibly lonely. The loneliest place on Earth despite having some support.

The weather here (South UK) is miserable which really does not help. Being outside makes a massive difference.

@Isthisit2025 oh god that sounds terrible. No idea what to say to support you. Leaving a partner is hard enough but your child ? Impossible to imagine.
i know what you mean about the loneliness. I’ve told a total of 4 people what’s going on plus my adult children.
one friend has been amazing really nice suggested very easy outings that have really given me a break.
i have not stopped crying since yesterday. I can’t seem to control myself. It’s awful.
its likes a bereavement .
what strikes me from this thread is that we all are suffering with PTSD .For those still with the alcoholic that’s ongoing . I honestly had no idea of the impact addiction has on everyone.

@wouldratgerbeunknown There is nothing anyone can say, absolutely nothing (thank you btw). The only ‘comfort’ I get is from those who have/are experiencing the impact of addiction. People can be kind and well intentioned, but only those who have felt the indescribable pain can ‘help’. Nobody else can support really IMHO.

I don’t speak about it much to friends/family. I actually feel worse after, as I feel it’s “oh poor you” but obviously well intentioned!!

I attend a Zoom support group once a week and I have to say that keeps me going all week.

I need to get washed/dressed and out of this house. Going out keeps me sane!

Have a good day all. Life goes on doesn’t it?!

That’s the sadness of addiction. It takes away all the decency in the person. They can be lovely, but if they’re an addict they will lie without thinking and do a lot worse when cravings hit.

Once you tell people an it’s not a dirty secret and you aren’t covering up or enabling - it gets easier

@wouldratgerbeunknown I'm fairly sure I still have PTSD, years after my DH's death. Living with an alcoholic is such a tremendous shock to our nervous systems and it is ongoing for months and years, never knowing when the next crisis will come, that scary feeling that our whole lives are collapsing around us, verbal and sometimes physical violence, being continually lied to and gaslit. It's hardly surprising the effects are so extreme and long lasting.

Oh yes! And through your head runs the thought "Why am I even asking?". It's almost like Einstein's definition of insanity. Only we are not insane, we simply love our addict and hope against hope that we will find the right words, phrase the questions in just the right way that the light bulb will go off in their heads. But there isn't.

DH is back drinking again after another ER 'in and back out' visit on Friday, but he only lasted 2 days sober (Fri/Sat). He doesn't realize I know because he just can't seem to remember that I get alerts from the bank. I've decided I'm not even going to ask and if he says 'XX days sober' I'll bite my tongue because I know he'd lie so why put myself through that? And I've decided for my own MH I'm DONE trying to get him help. He will rise or fall on his own. I know this sounds cruel, but my object now is to keep him in the house so the mortgage gets paid.

FWIW My BFF's son was addicted to drugs, even now she really doesn't know what-all he was taking. The drugs started when he was around 15 and after years of disrespect, insults, and bringing drugs into her house and making 'wax' in her home when she was at work he finally crossed the line and actually 'bowed up' and threatened her with physical injury. She kicked him out, I think he was probably about 21 or 22. He went NC for months but finally contacted her, clean, and has not used drugs since. Because it all happened away from her and he said he didn't want to talk about it she has no idea what the catalyst was or how he got clean. She does know that his GF's parents took him in so he was never homeless. He has since apologized to her and has a well paying job with good prospects. He treats her like a queen. So there are some success stories. I just don't know if he's a 'statistical anomaly' or not.

@AcrossthePond55 The constant let downs are exhausting. I doubt even if he remembered the bank alerts he would pay any heed. The addiction controls all rationality. It isn’t cruel, it is self preservation.

I’m so pleased for your BFF. That’s the outcome any parent could wish for..

I have just had ‘words’ with my DS. Foolishly I lent him £30 for his train fare to work on Friday “I’ll pay you back tonight when I get paid”. Sunday and still no money. According to him he is paying all his wages to the dealers. He owes me thousands from 3 years ago and while I was away last August I foolishly left him my credit card for ‘emergencies’ which he ran up £7K (I take full responsibility for being trusting fool). I have been paying that since last September.

I have told him I don’t want anything more to do with him. And I want him to look for accommodation immediately, I just snapped. I also told him I will be changing my will. I was totally unhinged and cannot change what I said. Although I am fully prepared to do everything I say. He will take me into the gutter with him if I don’t take action. I do not want to make him homeless, I really don’t, but he is slowly killing me. I am on my own, I don’t have any more money to give. My emotional cup is empty. I have to accept something may happen to him, but that won’t be as a consequence of what I said/am doing.

Life is pretty shit😔

My DC have both had therapy and will need more. I am less affected, though that is probably because 1) I am older, and 2) I had so much more agency than they did when we were in the thick of it. But I have also had multiple sequences of therapy, and the work I'm doing now in supporting other people who have loved ones with addiction problems is part of my own recovery. I suspect it will never be complete.

The one thing that can work for addicts is consequences. If you are ready to give your DS consequences, that is a step forwards.

One of the people in my group has done exactly what you are contemplating - no more money for her addict, no more coverups, no more support. And her addict is currently engaging with mental health services and not using.

Find your strength.

It doesn’t sound cruel @AcrossthePond55 it sounds like you understand what needs to be done to not enable him.

Not cruel at all @AcrossthePond55. They just lie

@Isthisit2025. Well done for snapping. You had to do it and as hard as it is as your son. He will drag you down

I think dd will need therapy when ex dies as tho she isn’t bothering about seeing him currently She’s 8 and deep down hes her dad

I dread the moment when I have to tell her

@pointythings I agree re consequences. I have got to have the courage of my convictions. I am his Mum and my heart breaks but we all have to do things we don’t want to do. Whether it will have a good outcome I don’t know.

@Penguinsandspaniels I’m sure your DD will need some support along the way. You are fully aware though so will know when the time is right. No child hates their parents deep down, even though she won’t see him, at least she’s made that choice for herself. Bless her heart.

A good outcome is never guaranteed.

But what is guaranteed is that continuing as you are will achieve absolutely nothing.

I almost know how hard it is - I blew up my marriage. I also know it is infinitely harder for you, because it is your child and your love for him is unconditional. I hope you find the strength to do what is necessary.

God this is EXACTLY how I feel about my awful years with Ex. I can never really find the words to explain what it was like to people who haven’t lived it too - crisis after crisis after crisis, constantly on high alert, living in fear, being attacked verbally, being blamed, constantly defending yourself and your actions, worry (and of course all the covering up I did while still be castigated as the villain letting him down). There is never any space for you, everything was about Ex all the time, he didnt even let my family bereavement be about me… he sent me suicide threats the day after a funeral where I gave the eulogy, having done the end of life care at home with my sibling. Just WTAF.

I’m actually doing really well after 7 months apart, way better than I thought I would because the level of trauma I was feeling when I finally walked was extreme - I was physically and mentally unwell. But I am very lucky that my children are from my (2 decades long) first marriage and I have my own home. It was a lot easier for me to walk away and heal. But I still have moments of shock and disbelief, and things will still trigger me - when my daughter uses mouthwash, the guy who came to fit the blinds smelt of aftershave which was always an ‘Ex trying to cover the face that alcohol seeps out of his pores’ smell

@pointythings What I’ve been doing so far has not worked/is not working so I have to make a change because he won’t.

I am already regretting everything I said. It was knee jerk though it was how I truly felt so I have to follow through.

How do people get through every day? It’s torture. Truly it’s torture.

Try not to beat yourself up for saying things. That lash out moment is so familiar. We plod onwards waiting for things to happen. I hate it but we react to what happens rather than actually making decisions for ourselves.
Small steps are good. You want him to leave. That’s a great starting point. I long for us to achieve that. Try to rest and breathe. This journey is traumatic and long xx

@Hellodarknes55 I have just spoken to my DS. I asked him if he understood why I said those things, he said yes. I told him I will always be here when he is ready to be supported and actually doing something proactively. I also told him
i loved him but also reiterated I meant what I said.

I feel better. I never want him not to know I’m here to support when he’s ready and that I love him.

@Nogoodusername I don’t know if anyone is truly the same person they were before the trauma. I am not the person I was 2 years ago. It takes great strength and tenacity to recover from this. It is achievable but not without lasting effects.

I think this is one of the parenting times of "This will hurt me more than it hurts you". Yes, I agree you have to follow through. Dealing with an addict, our backing off what we've said just reinforces to them that we will put up with anything.

Wishing you strength and wisdom. You'll get through this. Hopefully he'll be like my BFF's son and somehow, he will finally 'wake up.

One of the things DS1 has taught me during this period is that it doesn't do any good to worry about what hasn't happened. When I start to worry about 'what ifs' or 'when ifs' he says "Is there anything you can do today that will change this?" and when I say no he says "Then that's a tomorrow problem, so don't waste your time thinking about it now. Think about it when it happens". And he's right. I can't say I've conquered it 100%, but I am better at putting those things out of my mind.

'Dreading the moment' today isn't going to change what happens tomorrow. So put it up on a high shelf and just enjoy the precious time you have with your DD right now.

@Penguinsandspaniels Don’t worry about what hasn’t happened. Of course you will, you’re a parent after all. Live in her world. Take pleasure in her everyday. Bring her normality every day. When/if the time comes you will deal with it. Until then enjoy her little world. My GC little world is delightful and takes away the unfortunate grown up stuff. I thank God (I’m not at all religious) for my GC. The joy washes over me..

Wise words

she was so upset when I told her he was in hospital as fell down the stars drunk and broke his hip

so I know she loves him and o get that as a parent and why we do go and see him weekly for an hour a week - tho she never wants to stay alone so I always stay

and tbh I don’t trust him an he would be breathalysed and if showed alcohol she wouldn’t be staying

but that’s not going to happen for a long time if at all

equally he didn’t turn up today an she wasn’t bothered an didn’t care

Addictions thrive on lies. But it's nothing personal about you. For every lie they tell you, they've told themselves a hundred.

"I'm just going through a rough patch, once things settle down I'll stop drinking as much."
"If my partner wasn't such a bitch I wouldn't drink like this."
"I'll just have a couple tonight, I won't go mad."
"It's Christmas - who doesn't drink at Christmas? Once we get past New Year's I'll have a dry January."
"Come on, everyone has a few too many every now and then. I've not got a problem."
"I don't drink that much. Dave drinks much more than me."
"I just need a sharpener to get me going this morning. It's only a splash of vodka to make me feel ok. I won't do it again."
...and so on and so forth.

I was addicted to nicotine for years. The lies I told myself about smoking were endless, and nicotine is much less psychoactive than alcohol is. If you've never experienced addictions it's really hard to imagine the mindset involved because it doesn't make objective sense. It's part of your brain actively working against your best interests. For me, this is one of the best explanations of how it feels - https://orangepapers.eth.limo/orange-addmonst.html. It's not a viewpoint that everyone involved in addiction support necessarily subscribes to but I found it accurate.