Continuing support group for those affected by someone else's drinking

[pointythings]

Our current thread is nearly full, and it's too valuable to lose in the mists of time, so this is thread 2. Come here if you are struggling with a loved one's drinking - partner, parent, child, friend, there's support for you here no matter which person in your life is struggling with the drink and having an adverse impact on you. The women on here have all been there or are still going through it. We support and advise each other, we don't judge, we listen.

Original thread here to refer back to: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/4581221-support-group-for-those-affected-by-someone-elses-drinking

OK, one tiny cautionary word: while it's fine to respect his boundaries right now when his recovery is fragile and things are tough, be careful that this doesn't slide into him silencing you and controlling what you can and cannot discuss. My late husband did this to me all the time, until I told him flat out that if he was allowed expression,then so was I.

OK, thanks. I'll bear this in mind. I think he's sensitive about it. I'm going to keep saying the positives like how nice it is to be e.g. reading without the booze, and just see how things go.

That sounds really positive. I'm happy for you and your DH.

My mum went to her appointment today and it was quite positive.
She let the lady know that she wanted to stop drinking weekdays, but she still wants to drink at weekends. I then said I was afraid that the days/quantities she was drinking would creep back up again.
The lady said they can support her to cut down to just weekends, and if she did slip into old habits, they can support her to completely give up.
We came up with a plan of the quantities to cut back, and when we left the meeting, I persuaded her to see if she can go two weeks without drinking at all before starting to drink weekends, which she agreed to. (I'm hoping they will prescribe her those pills that make you not want to drink, and it may last longer than two weeks)
I will try to post a photo of the plan we came up with. It seems like quite a long plan, but hopefully it will work for her.

Thanks. We'll see how it goes. We have some family visiting at the weekend and he struggled socially without it so that might be a test.

I have another question for those of you who are experienced in this. If someone can not drink for a few nights of the week (say Monday to Wednesday) and occasionally stop for a week or two. That could still be alcoholic? Or disordered drinking. It’s the attitude on the days on not drinking that seem to be more irritable and like all their effort is in to abstaining which I feel uncomfortable about.

@HazeBaze I am glad she went to the meeting and wish her all the strength in the world. But as you will already know, alcoholics make many promises and often they're not able to keep them. Try not to let your own happiness depend on what happens next. Don't sit there on tenterhooks for the next few weeks wondering whether she is sticking to the plan. Try and get on with your own life.

Yes, absolutely they can still be alcoholics. Toughing it out for a few weeks to 'prove' they don't have a problem is a pretty typical strategy. And being irritable and unpleasant on sober days backs that up. There's a thing called 'dry drunk' which is when someone isn't drinking but hasn't addressed the roots of their addiction at all - needless to say it is not the route to long term sobriety.

@Yumyi I think you've answered your own question. If they are clearly craving alcohol on the days they're not drinking, then they are an alcoholic. They're addicted to alcohol.

Thank you. I think this person if my life is in this situation where they prove to themselves they can do it for a week. Or they abstain a few days here and there. And if I was to bring it up as I think it a problem. They will use these days as evidence that they aren’t addicted.

Yes I see this in DH I understand. Not easy is it.

Yes, that is exactly how it goes. And alcoholics can do without for periods of time. My late husband did - when he was in rehab, they were tested daily. It was also clear in his whole demeanour that he wasn't drinking.

Which is why it was so devastatingly easy to see he was lying when he went back to drinking and denied it.

Yes and when they as so irritable when not drinking you almost find yourself thinking it would be better if they were drinking. As being with an alcoholic who is abstaining isn’t really any fun at all. I am sure they convince themselves they can’t be alcoholic as they can give up for a couple of days and aren’t reaching for the vodka bottle at 11am. Plus it’s also confusing as a loved one as you aren’t sure if they really are a “proper” alcoholic or if you are overreacting

By his demeanour when he wasn’t drinking do you mean generally unhappy? Then when he started again his mood improved initially?

When they get irritable like that and grumpy I wish they would go and get some kind of help with it or antidepressants if that helps them and lets them find it easier to steer clear of it

The trouble is that therapy, medication and counselling can't work when the alcoholic can only think about where he/she is going to get their next drink. Antidepressants can make a drinker feel much worse, so unless the alcoholic has stayed sober for an extended period a GP would/should refuse to prescribe. The answer is always to stop drinking first.

No, it was more complex than that. A couple of years before everything blew up, when I was still trying to work out how to handle what was happening, he had a kidney stone removed and couldn't drink for about 10 days. And he was awful - snappy, lethargic, unpleasant until about day 7 when he started improving because he had inadvertently detoxed himself. Unfortunately he started drinking again immediately and yes - when he couldn't get booze when he craved it, he was awful. This included times when we were out with the kids in places where there was no alcohol available.

When he came out of rehab, he was almost back to the man I married - he was funny, helpful, kind, eating properly, having fun. And as soon as he hit that first alcohol binge he was right back to being the slurring blank-eyed unpleasant zombie he had been for so long. He was so bad that alcohol no longer made him happy or even 'normal'. I hope yours isn't that far down the road yet.

Everyone's thoughts and experiences are so interesting, I do appreciate the support on this thread.
I have been listening to some alanon podcasts and like some others feel that partners of alcoholics are, despite the 3 Cs, blamed for their partner's refusal or inability to stop drinking, it is implied we are not kind or supportive enough.
Has anyone had experience of interventions? My bil thinks it would be worth trying, I am sure the kids would be supportive. However, my DH can only stop drinking for a few days and even when sober refuses to admit he is an alcoholic. I have told him he will lose me and the kids, he is on a slow road to an early death, it makes no difference. Friends and my BILS say he loves me, I think so what?

@fumanchu you could stay that I staged an intervention with my husband in the sense that I gave him an ultimatum - stop drinking or we would divorce. This was after years of us talking, him making and breaking promises and him telling endless lies.

And firstly - it didn't work. He didn't want to stop drinking, and 2 weeks after coming out of rehab he was back to drinking and lying.

Secondly - if you do go the ultimatum route, you need to realise that the ultimatum is on you as much as it is on your alcoholic. Because if you don't follow through, that will be taken as permission to carry on drinking because you won't do anything anyway. Only give an ultimatum if you are 100% certain you will follow through on the consequences. I was, and I did.

It's a high risk path to take. I don't regret taking it, but I was ready. You have to be sure that you are.

Pointythings, you are right, if I decide to end things I know I must see it through.

I have read about people saying an intervention had an effect, but personally I think the alcoholic must already be in a position of acceptance that they have a problem for it to work. For an alcoholic in deep denial as so many are, I can imagine it giving them another - everyone's out to get me - excuse to keep drinking. An ultimatum where you are basically setting your boundary and are prepared to stick to it, may well do nothing to stop your DH drinking but at least you'll know what to do next if he doesn't and won't be left in an endless limbo of waiting for something to change.

This is a mind dump. From a previous post my 'D'P is an alcoholic whose family watches him like a hawk and monitors his every move.

I realised that when he would tell his family he's meeting me it was just an excuse to get out of the house for hours at a time with free reign to drink.
So basically, he was using me as an outlet to be out on his own drinking (as I mentioned his family track him).

I feel so manipulated. Not sure what the purpose of this post it. Just feeling a bit flat.

@Morry15 oh I am so sorry, you must feel completely used and manipulated. Do you feel ready to end the relationship?
Try to stay out of his family dynamics, they sound controlling and not very healthy.

Thank you pointythings. Yes I'm ready to end the relationship. In fact his own family have told me to block him.

It's hard to explain but I actually feel numb and there are no real feelings towards him. I don't hate him, nor love him. It's indifference (with a tiny bit of sadness thinking what if things had been different). I was massively angry months ago. I no longer feel that anger.

We were meant to meet earlier this week, he didn't show (I knew he wouldnt) as he said he fell asleep (I.e went drinking). When I realised he wasn't coming there was a huge sigh of relief as I thought I don't have to play alcohol police today.

Also, besides telling me to block him, his family have inferred I'm a negative influence on him (not sure how but I guess that's another thread for another time).

I'm exhausted.

@Morry15 put his family out of your mind. They haven't yet learned to accept that they are powerless over his addiction and they are lashing out looking for someone to blame. You're an easy target. It is now time for you to walk away completely - from him and from his family - and to start looking after yourself. Your recovery starts today. Seek real life help if you need it. Keep posting here, even if it's just to vent.