The support thread (continued) for an alcohol free life. All welcome.

[WendyWagon]

Hello and welcome to the alcohol free support thread. We are a welcoming bunch. These threads were started by @drybird some three years ago.
We are a mixture of sober sisters (and the odd gent) who want to lead a alcohol free life. We chat about everyday things that we use to drink to manage. No question too silly. Someone will have done/thought or been through the same.

Hello @BraveMaeve - they’re good questions, and I’ll give you my answers to them (everyone here will have slightly different answers!). I’m 13 months sober, to put this in context.

The important thing to understand is that we all have a long and complex relationship with alcohol, that will have started when we first noticed how our parents treated alcohol, and evolved over time, being massively influenced by the culture and society around us.

So when you decide alcohol isn’t serving you any more, it’s like a really bad break up with the thing you thought was the love of your life. There are all sorts of connections with this great love.

One of my favourite quotes is “Sobriety isn’t just stopping drinking. It is also the gentle and careful untangling of all the attachments to it.”

So having written that essay (sorry!) my answers are:

1. Yes, eventually. Every time you do it, it becomes a little easier. A part of your brain will occasionally still go “ooh - what this really needs is wine!”, but it gets easier to shut it down: “nice try, brain, but not today”
2. No, eventually. There IS a certain sadness to this - I saw a lovely quote about this the other day that I will try to dig out - BUT you have so much more to gain. And don’t make assumptions about the people you see drinking - they may be on a downward spiral too.

But the only way to get there is to do it, one step at a time

Here it is

@BraveMaeve i doubt there is anyone on this thread who would stop at two glasses if they started drinking. We can moderate until we can't and that is the danger. I could swear under oath that I could have just two drinks but I can also tell you my whole headspace would be taken over by the thought of more booze. 'Who drunk the rest, should I get more on the way home?' In the five years before January 8th 2022 my whole day was about wine o' clock. I still think about it but it is abstract. I couldn't go back so I just put one foot in front of the other and tonight's tipple was milk, cold, delicious and I have actually ordered it in a pub!
Good luck.

@WendyWagon - loving the milk in pub scenario - it made me think of the old Milky Bar kid adverts - have visions of you bursting into the local saloon in full cowboy garb

I have been working at home all day and am now contemplating the choice between my new physio exercises (back pain) or watching another episode of Blue Lights. Might try to combine both activities.

Plus have got to do tonights episode of TNM.

I'm exhausted with all this self improvement.

And about moderation - I can't do it at all. I've got several friends who really do only drink one glass of wine all evening - which I definately can't do. Not starting in the first place is much easier.

Hello @BraveMaeve , welcome 😊

I was AF (alcohol free) for over year and then had a rather drastic wobble. I found my way here and am now almost two weeks in. @Onewildandpreciouslife and @WendyWagon have already given the sorts of answers that I would. But I'll add:

1. Yes, you can/will. It might be a bit akin to a grieving process, "mourning" the loss of what you thought was a comfort and a friend (but which in reality was neither). It's OK to feel sad about that. But I try to keep in my mind how it feels at the other end of the drinking chain (nausea, hangover, humiliation and their many and varied stablemates) before I am tempted to enjoy even a sip. Because in denying that something delicious you are also denying the danger of what can follow. For me, I know that it's not the third, fourth or even seventh or eighth glass that does the damage - it's the first. Every time. I'd be lying if I said it was easy from the beginning, it's not. Especially if you have well-meaning family or friends pressing you to try it (though if they are really well-meaning they should understand if you say "no, really, I don't want any." That said, this isn't my area of expertise. Despite the fact that I was regularly downing industrial quantities of spirits at my worst stages I rarely, if ever, drank whilst out or during a meal. Easier to convince myself I didn't have a problem that way, you see... There are lots of nice high-end alcohol free mixed drinks and virgin cocktails about these days which you can opt for. And, however, nice wine can be, it will ultimately affect the delicious food that you are there to enjoy. Try to think of it as rewarding yourself, rather than denying yourself - which you are, in the long term.

2. That's almost word-for-word the question I have asked myself many times over. I totally get what you mean. We are all different. I tried many times to moderate, it never worked. Even after over a year of being AF I convinced myself that I could limit my use - "I'll buy it, but that doesn't necessarily mean I will drink it". I did, always. "I'll stop after two drinks". That worked maybe 5% of the time, but never for long. "I've learned my lesson. Three drinks and then that's it. Stop." It took a mere matter of days before a litre of vodka was lasting a maximum of three nights. - I don't know why my mind, body and willpower work they way that they do, but I now know that there is something within me that cannot moderate. I think it's the first drink. It lowers your inhibitions and resolve, so you have "just another little one" which turns into another... and along it goes to the "F-ck-it! button" of "already p-ssed so might as well have some more". I do get cross and frustrated that I can't drink and stop sensibly like other people, I really do, often. BUT, as with question 1, I "play it forward" to the morning after and beyond consequences of having just that first one, and that makes my decision easier: I don't want that consequence, so I don't regret saying no. It is a shame in some ways that some of us simply cannot moderate. I'll admit that I can't understand why people would or even can just have one drink and then stop; it's alien to me. All I know is that I don't work like some other people. I CANNOT moderate and I really have genuinely tried. I just can't - so I just don't have any in the house or in my glass when out and about. And it does get easier. (I guess that somewhere along the line I "pickled myself", in that I ruined my ability to moderate - I heard Clare Pooley say on SoberDave's One for the Road Podcast that "You can turn a cucumber into a pickle. But once it is a pickle you can't ever turn it into a cucumber again". I am a pickle now, sadly but hopefully more wise for it).

I'm not a fan of all "quit lit" but I have found Catherine Grey's The Unexpected Joy of Being Sober and Clare Pooley's The Sober Diaries to be massively helpful. The first in particular contains answers to questions similar to the ones you seek.

Your questions are ones that most, if not all, of us have probably asked ourselves at some point (and probably more than once)I think you ARE very brave, just for finding your way here and asking the questions that you did.

Good luck to you, and I wish you every success. x

@WendyWagon Good on you for the "nice cold, ice cold milk" (remember that slogan? 1980s I think...!) @Cherrymix love the Milky Bar kid idea 😆!

I thought retribution would come a-calling at Slimming World tonight for all the chocolate (and strawberry. And banana.) milkshake that I've been downing - but I managed to stay the same weight as last week. Not ideal, but I'll gladly take that. Although I have had my hair cut now - and a tooth out today - so that ought to have been good for a couple of ounces... Happy days.

Strength and love to you all. xx

Thank you for all the lovely welcome messages! I've enjoyed reading your stories and sending love to those that have been through difficult times.

I feel like I'm fine Monday to Thurs, even Monday to Friday. I've stopped drinking in some situations I usually would (on a late train back from a 12 hour day working in London)...

But I can't moderate, I know that.

My main reason for deciding I need to stop again is I have no memory from weekend conversations with family but wasn't 'so drunk' anyone noticed I was drunk. It just reminded me of the awful things it does to our body.

Whenever I have long AF periods I am much more chilled, I exercise more, more patient and once over the initial tiredness I sleep better. I'm so annoyed I let myself down by drinking again.

I have read all your wise,heartfelt and insightful responses this evening ladies and I am full of admiration for you all. Thank you 🙏
I got through “ witching hour” and ignored the part of my brain anxiously trying to persuade me to drink.
Tomorrow I am going to pub quiz, but I am not worried about that, as I can just say I am driving. It’s when I get home I need to watch out for when the appeal of a few hours uninhibited gorging on really strong gin and tonics or huge glasses of wine, will really take over me.
But that’s tomorrow, and I will try and face that an hour at a time, as you lovely lot have suggested xxxxxx

Well done @REP22 haircut AND a tooth, that has to be at least 3lbs! Have a big poo too and your good for a half stone loss next week 🤣

@BraveMaeve everything they all said is true. I used to smoke and still 17 years on I get the odd craving out of nowhere but I never wish I was a smoker. I walk past the smokers outside buildings and feel sorry for them to be honest. Trapped in the addiction cycle. And I’m also 14 months into sober and it is getting that way for drinking. There is the odd pang of, really I won’t toast my daughters marriage? (she is 11 for reference so this isn’t in the near future!). But to be honest, I don’t want to toast anything with alcohol. I can see all the things it took away from me, my children’s childhoods were marred by hangovers and resentment, my choices on socialising focused on drinking, a lifetime of new experiences I haven’t chosen because I was tired, hungover, didn’t want to have to drive. My life is IMMEASURABLY better now. Alcohol only took away things, it gave me nothing. I can see that now. moderation was the worst of all. Constantly letting myself down, relentless bargaining in my head. Fuck that.

oh and as someone up thread said sober sex hey, they don’t tell you about that in the books 🤭.

PS I haven’t lost weight or saved loads of cash, I haven’t retrained as a brain surgeon or written a best seller, I’m just me, but the best me.

PPS I didn’t even drink ‘that’ much, I didn’t day drink, I was rarely over a bottle of wine in the evening, I made sure to have a couple of dry nights a week (lockdowns withstanding). Which isn’t a brag, but if I feel this much better then it stands to reason the further down the trap the better the release.

Morning all.
Just going to hit the crumpets (marks sourdough) delicious.
No dawn watching this morning as I went back to sleep.
I have had a wine witch on my shoulder re champagne for the new house but as I am a total snob and have no money left post the house purchase I think I am safe! I do have two Nozecco in the cupboard.
I had the blood test for the diet drug yesterday including the liver function. I will be interested to see where the reading is now after last year when it went back to near normal in four months of AF.
Ladies I have scared myself sh*tless re dying an early death and it is no bad thing. However I am also looking forward to more sex (thanks for reminding me @Fortheloveofgodwhy@Fortheloveofgodwhy
Tmi but when you are a drunk and your DH isn't I imagine I was about as appealing as a £30 lady of the night. On that thought, have a lovely clear headed day my friends.

Good luck for the bloods Sav.

even the memories of drunk sec makes my toes curl - and not in a good way 🫣

Jeez SEX

Hi everyone! Lots to catch up on.

@BraveMaeve Its not a great idea to rely on willpower. If you read Alcohol Explained by William Porter, you won’t need willpower. You just won’t want/fancy a drink. The attraction will be gone. I cannot moderate, I am definitely all or nothing, and I accept this aspect of my personality. Not drinking alcohol is now a tiny thing, not a Big Thing.

Im another one who had a horrible abusive “childhood “ which extended into my adult life, being constantly belittled and undermined. It’s a miracle I have any confidence at all.

Anyway, I have a tale for you lads. I had a minor operation yesterday under GA and had to stay in hospital overnight. The woman opposite had a few visitors and I heard them going on about how they had brought her her “special tonic water” cue much giggling and repeating of the phrase.

I did think surely that isn’t a litre of G and T they just poured into her (emptied) water jug. Bear in mind she probably just had surgery too, so body full of lovely opiates.

Yes, it was a bloody litre of gin and tonic. She got progressively loud and troublesome, and actually wet her bed three bloody times in 12 hours. I hadn’t even thought about booze, but old me might even have discharged myself so I could go home and drink…

Back home now and feeling tired but OK.

@rothbury glad you are home and well.
What in God's name makes people think booze in hospital is a great idea? Are they a bit thick? I get it in a hospice (my late mother allowed herself a large whisky) but Jesus the world's gone mad.
I have friends and family who are medics and so much of their time is taken up with drinkers. I was lucky I never went in under the influence and now I would be too ashamed. For what it's worth I think as soon as you start to notice we are soaked in booze as a society you are well into your new life.
I have asked for plants for the new house. It will be interesting to see who listens.

Just dropping in to add my tuppence worth. 444 days today and going strong!

Moderation - it's not something I will ever be able to achieve and I now acknowledge that and accept it. Every single time I have tried to moderate in the past I have found myself even more fixated on the booze and I have expended way too much time and energy on trying - and ultimately failing - to be a moderate drinker. I'd manage to moderate for weeks and then I'd just think "fuck it" and end up drinking even more than I was before. You never drink less over time, you only ever drink more

Sober sex - It's true, sober sex is wonderful - who knew?? After I stopped drinking I took a long, hard look at my significant sexual relationships and was ashamed of how much booze was involved in them. It wasn't even a conscious thing, I didn't 'have' to drink to be in the mood or have the confidence etc, drinking was just so entwined in my life that it came as part of the package. In the end alcohol diminished my sex life. I'd rather sit up with a bottle of wine than be in bed with my partner. Alcohol numbs everything, that part of me died for a while. I cannot express how amazing it feels to be able to properly connect with on that level again!!!

Good morning all. Hope the sun is shining where you are.

@WendyWagon sorry you've been scaring yourself. It will be alright, you're doing all you can. Hope the tests go OK. x

@Fortheloveofgodwhy, hehe thanks! More teeth to follow but I can only manage one out at a time, so further glory at the scales awaits! The Slimming World that I go to isn't too bad, but years ago I went to Weight Watchers with a friend and the level of ladies straining in the loos beforehand was really something. I'm sure some of them gave themselves hernias in their quest to shed a few poo-pounds before facing the scales. Madness.

@rothbury with you all the way on the childhood issues. Have you read the poem "This Be The Verse" by Philip Larkin? It's a horrible legacy. You're a great person, despite it all.

That hospital experience sounds grim, I'm so sorry you had to see that. I had similar a few years ago - I was admitted to hospital and in the bed opposite was a young girl, maybe 19. At her side was her boyfriend - literally in the bed with her although (small mercies) he was wearing his clothes and shoes. She was supposed to be very ill (it was an acute ward) but kept sneaking outside for a fag with BF, sexualised behaviour in the bed in front of us all, laughing and smirking at anyone who dared to glance their way, openly mocking the very overweight and unconscious lady in the next bed... etc... the poor nurses were over-run and powerless. I was so annoyed but determined not to let it show on my face - until I looked over and saw BF swigging deeply from the hand sanitiser bottle at the end of the bed. 😱 He even raised it in a "cheers!" gesture when he caught my eye. 😬 The ward sister clocked him and he was finally "invited to leave", with his good lady following not long after (nothing wrong with her). Awful.

Hope you make a good recovery from the OP and all goes well.

@millypeggyandpandora Good luck for the pub quiz! I am going to a pub quiz tonight too, managed to get a team together, haven't been to one in ages and I love them. I think they are expecting great things from me, as I was on MasterMind once. But I'm not sure they realise that I made a total tit of myself, so my own hopes aren't high. I do enjoy a good quiz. I have, like you, come up with a bit of a strategy in that I have offered to do the driving for some of the team and have made it clear in advance that I will not be on the falling-down-water. Not a good idea in any case, apart from all the usual sound reasons - I have a mega-important and tough work meeting tomorrow and I have to deliver up the dog to the vets early in the morning as he's having his 'nads removed (the dog, not the vet). I've not warned him; I sense it would not be welcome news...

Strength and love to you all. x

Ooh quizzes, I love them.
@REP22 I thought you might be a writer or academic. @Breathmiller writes beautifully.
In my last two big cheese jobs I have started at 7am so I can stop for 'The Chase'. I then talk to the US after that. I cook to the ad breaks. If I didn't have a stalker I would go on the show.
I have been writing a stand up show for the last couple of years. An Edinburgh fringe thing. I am too old to do anything with it but I do have a Facebook alterego. Just funny stuff people have said to me. Mainly interviews and 'arguments with stupid'. I would love to have been an actor or singer but I couldn't do poor thespian. I am also very competitive so hence to date no quiz shows. I think now my second career will be books. Too old to sing Madam Butterfly but I do a mean Elvis even sober!

@WendyWagon aw, thank you, you are very kind. 💖I did used to have a successful blog, once upon a time. Done a bit of other writing and acting/singing and had a play that I wrote performed. But I'm not famous or anything. These days I am mostly just a gobshite. 😉

I would like to do comedy, but I'm not brave enough.

Keep writing - you have a nice warm style, and lots that is good to say. Remember, a first draft doesn't necessarily have to be good; it just has to be written.

Can we all get discounts for your first show? xx

Hello all. I am spread a bit thin this week. Which is good as there are many distractions. I have done 3 days AF now. I know this first three weeks is tough and weird. I really appreciate this thread - thank you all.

I'll be back and more chatty later. Promise!

Oh I have downloaded the nomo app - which is old school and simplistic but I like it.
I also recommend Annie Grace's alcohol experiment 30 day challenge. It's an exploration of how you are with alcohol. She also has interesting stuff about the science of moderation and why it's so hard for lots of us (me!)

Ah well done Dumdedum. Day 3 was the worst for me. The one where I really felt I had had long enough dry to be ‘off it’ but the cravings were intense the wine witch was on full rabbling flow that night. To be fair I usually cracked on day 4 so maybe day 3 was just the last night of the sober streak 🤣.

Anyway nomo is great for a go to for numbers. No need to do anything other than log in!

@Fortheloveofgodwhy it does feel very long!!

Day 22 as good as done as off to work in an hour for what will no doubt be a busy shift.

Long rant alert!! Tune out now if you cba😃

So I am semi retired and have a part time job to supplement my pension (2 days a week). I really enjoyed it to start with but now I loathe it. Various reasons which I won't go into but I've been thinking of leaving for weeks. It came to a bit of a head on my last shift owing to a frankly insulting memo from one of the bosses who has never even met me.

I was going to put a post on AIBU about quitting my job when I didn't have anything else lined up but decided against it.

Spent last night mulling over my finances/DH wages and have just printed off my resignation letter!!

For context - we don't really need the money but it helps towards holidays and helping DC get on property ladder. I'm 99% sure I can get other work for good money and more flexibility/less drama - but it's not guaranteed.

I think the guilt over my drinking has kept me working more than I've wanted to as a way of making up in some way for the pain I've caused by helping the DC get their own place.

I also feel guilty that DH may have to work a bit more than he'd like (although he is younger than me) even though I have worked more over the course of our marriage and brought in a big lump sum (inheritance and profit from property). But thanks to therapy, I am acknowledging my people pleaser tendencies and really working on being more assertive wrt my needs.

So this really is a big deal for me and I'm so proud that's I've done it / put myself first for a change. It's also another reason for staying AF as DH and the DC are really supporting me with it and I won't let them down again.

Well done and 🍵 🍰 if you've got this far!!

Keep up the good fight my fellow AFLers 💪❤️

Well done @2023forme that’s amazing.

I am sure a better job is just around the corner for you.

I used to suffer dreadful imposter syndrome, but that seems to be easing off since I stopped drinking.

Good choice @2023forme get that letter handed in and start a new chapter