Support group for those affected by someone else's drinking

[fedup078]

Hi
I haven't seen a dedicated thread for the families or partners of alcoholics / problem drinkers so I thought I'd start one for people to check in for support.

My mother was a problem drinker from when I was 12 until she died when I was 36 2 years ago . I was nc at the time

Currently divorcing a drinker and feeling quite low about it all suddenly. I know there was nothing else I could do but it doesn't make it easier .

Have given al-anon a thought a few times but I'm not sure in person / zoom meetings are for me.

@RuralDreamerWest it is incredibly hard, but it's clear this man is a really hardcore addict with multiple issues and believe me, you do not want children growing up with someone like that for a father. I hope you can find the strength to walk away and start over, you deserve happiness.

I've been reading quite a lot today about alcoholism altering brain chemistry and it helps a bit to understand why it's just changed her into a person I don't recognise at all.

@lollydu Ugh, this is something I am trying to get my head around too, re my mother. Who is this bitter, nasty, selfish woman, and when did she appear?

I do not usually talk to my mother. I am generally good at keeping my boundary. Today I needled her a bit, because I felt so frustrated and wanted to know, to understand. Yes, I know, utterly futile!

I just got a load of self-pitying crap about how my dad never changed any nappies and wasn't interested in our birthdays. (I don't care about this in the slightest, he was working insane hours to keep us all housed and fed.) As if any of that is a good reason to become a twisted, nasty alcoholic. To be honest, it's usually me who gets blamed for her problems. It's all bollocks, I think it's an addled mind reaching for anything.

I know that breaking my boundary didn't help anything today and only upset me. But the thing is, I occasionally have to give myself a reminder that I cannot do anything about this. I have got to really whack myself in the face with reality sometimes, or I start fantasising about how I could persuade her to do this or that.

I said to my dad recently 'she has never liked me, she has always sneered at me, belittled me'. I was a little shocked when he agreed. My partner was horrified, he thought no father should say that.

And then the next day I felt strangely at peace. I have never felt likeable, but when he agreed with me on that, it's like things suddenly became clear. No, she never liked me and now I know that for sure. But you know what, who cares! Other people do. Really good people, too. And she's just one person! Just one sad, messed-up, bitter person, whose opinion shouldn't be trusted anyway. After that day, I felt that people started to treat me better, to perceive me as a happier, more confident person.

When you can get someone to help you see things clearly, help you trust your judgement, then I think you can really start to heal from this shit.

@amlie8 you should never feel bad about speaking the truth about the addict in your life and their impact on you. It's incredibly empowering to get your real feelings out there and stop hiding behind the social conventions. Bravo to you for allowing yourself to speak out, and I am not at all surprised that it has brought you some peace.

The first time I admitted in my support group that I had wished my husband dead, and that my first feeling on hearing of his death was relief had the same effect.

@amlie8 do you think as well hearing it from someone else brings it out into the world and you realise it's not just in your head and part of your messed up emotions from having an alcoholic mother.

In some ways I am lucky - my mum is not a nasty drunk, it doesn't make her bitter and twisted, at least it might do but it's not directed at me. She just drinks too much on her own and then falls over. I have a friend who has an alcoholic mother who rings and hurls abuse down the phone at her when she's drunk so at least I don't have to deal with that. I'm so sorry that you are having to deal with that as well.

I've been thinking today, when she eventually dies, more than likely from alcoholism, I'm going to feel guilt that I wasn't able to tell her and show her that I still love her. This messed up dynamic between us has caused so much damage, and she's a shell of the person she used to be, I find it so difficult to show her love and affection, my barriers are so far up now it's like there's an ocean between us. But she's always loved me and has never treated me badly aside from the alcoholism and choosing drink every time and slowly turning into a co dependent child I have to look after.

But how do I show her that I still love her without getting sucked back in. I have distance now which is helping me but it's probably very painful for her and making things worse drink wise. I wish I had the answers. I know I need to detach with love, the detaching I am doing OK with at the moment but the love bit is so hard.

@pointythings I can imagine that relief. I said to my dad recently 'I fucking hate her!' I don't tend towards childish outbursts like that, and it wasn't a particularly helpful thing to say, but to me, the occasional big statement is a declaration that this is wrong. I confided in my aunt around a year ago and it was life-changing to hear her agree that the behaviour is self-centred, sad, unpleasant etc. For so long, I went through life with my head down, too scared to talk about any of it. Speaking out has also had the effect of distancing myself from my mother's behaviour. When it seemed like my secret, I was inevitably tangled up in it. Now, it's something external. It is not 'me' any more.

@lollydu I am sad to hear about your feelings of guilt. I am wary of clumsily saying the wrong thing here, but it sounds like you are a very loving daughter and the problem is not that you do not show love, it's more that your mother is less able to recognise and receive it. Plus, when someone is choosing to destroy themselves, love is going to look like pleading, criticism, shouting and/or boundaries. What else can a loving relative do?

Reading more about the way alcohol changes the brain – I was frustrated to learn that many changes can reverse themself after around a year of stopping drinking. It's possible, but I think my mother is too far gone. She seems unable to take joy in anything. No gratitude for anything, despite having so much to be grateful for. No compassion or care for anyone else. No interest in anything at all, except lying on the sofa from 8am till 10pm. Just griping, moaning, utter laziness. And that's in the mornings, before she has a chance to turn into a staggering mess, muttering like Gollum. I am not sure if I love her any more. Maybe I will be happy when she dies, because to me, she is half dead already. It seems to be what she wants.

So much of what you say resonates! This thread is really helpful. You are right, when I vocalise this to other people I say that I must sound like a callous bitch but they always say no you sound like a loving daughter who just wants the best for your mum. But yes most of the time now our exchanges are me pleading, shouting or storming out in frustration. She does absolutely the same as your mum, just a hollow shell of a person hating the world. She's just moved into the most lovely independent living facility within the last couple of months. I tried so hard to get her joining in with all the social things they do, to help her make connections with people who aren't alcoholics and helped her furnish her beautiful flat in the hopes that she could find joy in anything but the bottle and it was all a completely waste of time, totally pointless exercise. I watched my dad die of cancer at 16 years old and the feeling now isn't dissimilar to that, the anxiety and the wishing it was over but not, all of that. Its such a taboo thing to say but if she's not going to choose to get better then she really is just killing herself slowly and watching someone do it in slow motion is just complete torture and part of me wishes it would just be over with. I'm not sure how much longer I can do this for.

@lollydu Oh, I still occasionally say 'why don't you attend this nice coffee morning/get some tomato plants/go out for a walk?' All utterly pointless.

This is what alcoholism does. When I read these shared stories, I realise that there is nothing special or unusual about my mother. For the longest time, I thought there was. But no, so many people are going through almost exactly the same thing.

I do understand the temptation to shout and plead and storm out. I sometimes do one or all of those things. However, we risk making ourselves more unhappy when we fight against the situation. We can't change it. I am a writer by profession, and I used to think I just needed to find some killer way of phrasing my concerns – or maybe a really brutal insult that would wake her up. No no no, there's nothing I can say that will make a difference. If my mother came to me and said 'I want to stop, I want to be better', I'd do everything in my power to support her. But she's never said that.

We really, truly, can't change things. You've surely heard 'I didn't cause this, I can't change this and I can't control this'? Good to keep in mind.

Please take care of yourself, keep talking, keep reading. x

I remember saying I hoped my mother would die
You'd think id have felt guilty when she did but I didn't
She caused so much hassle over the years and I just gave up on her in the end as all I got was abuse / guilt trips. Blaming anyone but her self for her issues .

I think if exh doesn't sort himself out soon he will also be dead within 10 years
He has thrown away so much for booze. And again . He is unable to take any responsibility for his actions .

Whenever I see him now he is shaking uncontrollably. He's an absolute mess.

But, as we all know . Nothing and no one can help an addict if they don't want to stop .

@solice84 my mother became an alcoholic after my dad was diagnosed with dementia (yes, I had two of them in my life at the same time at one point). After my dad died, she essentially started drinking herself to death - and admitted as much. She drank herself into full blown Korsakoff's dementia in the space of 4 years; in her last 6 months she was having carers in 4 times a day, was completely not living in the real world any more and my Dsis and I had to arrange to have her car taken away because she had no valid licence (she let it lap) and habitually drove drunk.

She died 4 days before the assessment that would have seen her sectioned (or the Dutch equivalent) and taken into a care home against her will - again, Dsis and I organised it from here. It was a horrendous time.

Both my Dsis and I felt very strongly that however traumatic her death (she fell down the stairs in her home drunk) it was better than the trauma of being sectioned.

We are allowed to feel relief when the people alcohol has stolen from us finally die and maybe find a little peace.

I came on here to help me feel better and have some understanding of how it feels to have alcoholic parents.
I've just had a wonderful holiday with my parents and the drinking just astounds me.
10:45 start in the most unusual places.
Absolutely breaks my heart and nothing I can say it do will change it.
I've shed so many tears over this.
I'm so sorry for all the stories, some of you have been absolutely put through the wringer ❤️

Just an update from me, me and my alcohol dependent bf got back together after last time (predictably) but it all came to head again tonight.
i again broke up with him but what bothers me is the fact that i hope we can work this out. I know he is not good for me. He has squandered some £100k of inheritance in a year alone on drink, games and shit. I know i need to get away and mean it but i find it hard. I am perplexed why i’m drawn to him. Im divorced, 2 kids, 9 and 14, i have a good job, my own home. Why i fall for men like him. There must be something wrong with me.
i wanted to help him. To give him love but that is not enough, right. I’m repeating the mantra ‘not my fucking problem’ but it only helps a bit. I need to work on myself. Part of me is worried about him tonight as he was suicidal just a month ago. But i’m also worried about myself as it is becoming clear to me there is something about me that draws me to men like him.
He showed no emotion tonight. Despite me genuinely caring and looking after him when he was ill. I’m a mug. I need to put myself first.
i’m sad. I’m angry. I need to talk but have noone to talk about this. I’m just ranting here…

@BumblebeeAndPoppy women are conditioned to be nurturers and rescuers. This is great when it comes to looking after our babies, but it's a bit shit when those instincts are directed at adult partners who are addicted to things. The thing to do is be mindful of this. Women are not rehab centres for badly raised/badly functioning men. If you can remember that, it might help with the sense of guilt.

Working on yourself is a good idea. You may find the Freedom Programme useful to teach you how to identify red flags. It's a long term thing, so please don't beat yourself up for essentially being a good, loving human being. All you need to do is get better at self preservation.

@BumblebeeAndPoppy you sound very kind and caring.

Maybe another way to think about this is to ask yourself why you aren't drawn to men who are stable, happy and responsible? Do you think they wouldn't be interested in you? That you don't deserve someone nice? And you're not sure why they would like you?

It might be that you've absorbed the idea that your worth and value as a person is all about how much you can do for others. Of course, it's an amazing thing to be generous and giving, as you are. But there are lots more reasons why someone should love you. And you deserve to be the person who is helped and looked after, in an equal partnership.

Think about all the other reasons why someone would like you. Maybe it's your great cooking, your sense of humour, your love of walks, or that you're a great companion to snuggle up and watch films with. I don't know you, but you must be able to identify some things! There are nice blokes out there who aren't miserable, selfish 'projects'. They'll be grateful for all the love and care you have to give, but more importantly, they'll be able to give you the same things back. What a lovely, warm relationship that would be.

@BumblebeeAndPoppy have you read ‘Women Who Love Too Much’ by Robin Norwood? If you haven’t, give it a try. It really opened my eyes to my own behaviour, and why I am attracted to the wrong kind of person. I’d been trying to figure it out for years but just couldn’t see it until it was all laid out in black and white in front of me.

I've posted on here before about my brother. He moved back to our parents house supposedly as a stop gap when he split from his wife . We had no idea how dependent he was

Last week he was rushed into hospital as an emergency, and he has been going through a difficult time detoxing . He seems very confused and very unsteady, and I'm not sure if its due to the withdrawal from alcohol, the drugs, or something else .
I'm concerned that he may be discharged, and my elderly parents really wouldn't be able to cope. I work fulltime and wouldn't be able to provide the support he needs either

I'm going to call the consultant tomorrow and express my concerns. Just wondered if anyone had any advice, or experience of any respite/ rehab care between hospital ( where God Bless the NHS the care has been amazing) and home

DB is very keen to leave the hospital and hasn't really acknowledged there is a problem, or at least not to the family. Can't see him going anywhere willingly

@sadderthensad what an awful situation, my heart goes out to you.

It is quite possible that your brother has alcohol related brain damage, and if that is the case then his recovery is unlikely ever to be complete even if he completely stops drinking - and from what you're saying it is unlikely that he will.

You can't stop your parents from taking him back into their home if that is what they want/feel they must do. On the other hand your parents do not have to take him back into their home. Yes, he will be homeless, but there are no good options here and there comes a point when self preservation has to come first, especially if your brother has no insight and will not admit there is a problem.

You also need to not get drawn into his drama. It is not selfish to put yourself first when dealing with an addict, it is essential. Support yourself, support your parents, your brother must come a distant last.

Thanks @pointythings . I think my parents have come to the conclusion that they wouldnt be able to cope. Im going to call the hopsital tomorrow and see if I can talk to his doctor and explain the situation.

He opted to have the detox programme which I am taking as a positive sign. Im hoping there is some middle option where he can be supported until his health improves. He seems very vulnerable now .

Ive come to terms with the fact that I cant change him... just trying to support my mum and dad now

What I am really struggling with ( this is just a rant really) is how society normalises alcohol... if you want a funny birthday card, nine times out of ten its got booze on it in some form .. and its not funny... its poisoning people . Now I'm in this situation with DB I notice it all the time.. in work banter, adverts on the TV, its insidious and really depressing

I agree about the normalising it - when it destroys lives.

Did you get anywhere when the doctors. The alcohol liaison nurse should be able to refer to appropriate agencies - including for housing. It sounds as if it isn’t going to be realistic for your db to return to your parents.

I agree about the normalising too. We found we had to stop drinking entirely when our niece came to live with us because of neglect due to substance misuse . She’d had 14 years of alcohol being everything to her parent, took the shine right off coming home and saying “ I need wine now” because of some minor mishap. She hates the taste of alcohol, and the sense of being out of control, but I watch her as a student forcing herself to drink to fit in with her friends.

Should add that we did eventually begin to have an occasional drink, so she has an understanding of responsible drinking. But it is a minefield.

@KangarooKenny my partner drinks from waking up till going to bed unless he's at work I have thought about leaving loads of times tbh but I gave birth to my daughter month ago but she sadly died and he's become a knob with drunk but I do love him and I want him to sort his self out but I can't make him do that 😭

@Michah89 So so sorry for your loss. Is his drinking a reaction , or was it already an issue? Either way, he’s no good to you at present so I hope you are getting help from somewhere. I know there is support available through SANDs and other charities. My heart aches for you. Take care.

@3dogs2cats I don't have support at all he only thinks about himself no drinking been problem since his mother's death 3years ago but he's very nasty when on drinks it's just verbal I love him and wen he's in a good mood he's the best every I just don't no what to do and sometimes I think he's got me in trauma bond that's why he does it to me or could it be he's just depressed?

@Michah89 it is likely that there is some kind of trauma bond here, but ultimately that isn't the point. Hard as it is, you must accept that you can't save him. You can however save yourself, and you do that by leaving. Your love for him is not helping either of you, it is just keeping you both stuck. Leaving is painful and difficult, but it will benefit at least one of you.

@pointythings he says he loves me and he's sorry when he's in lovely mood I just can't bring myself to leave him cos I no he's not the worse person 😭