Changing first name

[mollymollymoo]

Hi
It's looking really likely that we've been matched with a little girl - very excited! However - her current name is so identifying and ridiculous that even our social worker has said they can work with us to change it.
She'll be nearly 2 when she comes home.

Does anyone have any experience of this, the practicalities etc?

This is our 2nd adoption and we would have been more than happy to keep her name otherwise.. but really it is awful and not fair on her to have to grow up with it!!

Is there any way the name could be shortened to something more reasonable? That way it would be more like a nickname, not much different to how Andrews become Andys over time?

It's quite funny (not really, just reflecting), that names are so personal. No wonder there is a big discussion amongst adopters because of this. But being very selfish for a moment (as newly placed adopters), our little lad recently asked what my name was (he has heard this before), so I told him it was 'giddy' so-and-so. He laughed and said, 'that's not your name, your name's mummy', so I said 'yes to you I am mummy and mummy cares for you and keeps you safe, plays with you etc.etc.but to other people, I am giddy.' To be fair, the kid has a point. Since placement, no one has called me by my first name, SW's, healthcare workers, nursery workers, and my husband?!...it was lovely (and a bit strange) to hear myself say my first name...everyone's called me mummy since placement. This doesn't bother me, but I could see how it may bother others. The kids found it hilarious to hear my first name...Identity is a funny thing. All I wanted for years was to be a mummy, and now I am, but I am still mentioning the weirdness in a mumsnet post!! I love it really though. Just go with your gut on this, gut reactions are rarely wrong and even if they are, you have weighed up the pros and cons, if you think changing the name is right, do it. For us it wasn't, but we are not you, and your kids are not ours. Never feel your decision (either way) is wrong though, all decisions are always made on the info you have and what YOU think will best serve your kids now and in the future. xx

Thanks everyone.
We met SWs yesterday and think we're all agreed it would be for the best to change.

They're placing her out of area for safety reasons so it seems sensible given how identifiable it is.

Very wise.

If it helps, mine's had to be changed and it took them approximately 20 minutes to adjust .... then called them both for a few days then the name i gave them. The original is now a middle name. And they have a few nicknames too. I grew up with several nicknames that people call me, while a friend thought his name was No until he was about 6!

@onlyoranges it is really great to hear more adoptee voices. I think it is really, really helpful, and I only wish there were more adoptees posting. Your experience is very similar to others I have known, and it is supposed to be very common for adoptees to feel responsible for their parents' feelings.

Thanks for that bright in all honestly I don’t like to post on here and can see why others don’t but this one was so close to home. I appreciate your kind words.

I agree, thanks for your insight only

I’m an adoptee , my name was changed and i dont mind at all. Both are equally boring names that were common in the decade I was born .

My birth family call me my own name, the one I’ve had all my life. I’d find it creepy and bizarre if they wanted to call me the name that was on a bit of paper in a file many decades ago. If they did this if think they couldn’t accept me or my identity.

I know two families who changed their babies name when they were about a year old because they went off the name ( nothing to do with adoption ). No one has ever suggested that they couldn't do this “ because it was the child’s identity”. Sometimes there are threads here on MN and that’s NEVER mentioned .

It seems that it’s only adoptees whose identity is defined by a word on a piece of paper, other people get to have complex and multi dimensional identities.

I struggle to see how one name someone has had for , say, a year is more “real” than one they have had for 40. People can accept that you were married to your first husband for 20 years and then the next one for 15 years. Both are real . No one says “ is this your real husband ? “. They were both real .

IMO names are the same.

BTW this is no disrespect to anyone who does feel this way , is just my own opinion and observation..

@orlaith you say I know two families who changed their babies name when they were about a year old because they went off the name ( nothing to do with adoption ). No one has ever suggested that they couldn't do this “ because it was the child’s identity”. Sometimes there are threads here on MN and that’s NEVER mentioned

In fact the situation under law is that you can only change the name on the birth certificate if the child is under 12 months and only then if the child has been known by the new name since the baby is born. You can only change a name by deed poll if there are very good reasons for it. This is because it is generally seen as an unhelpful thing to change a child's name, not just in relation to adoption. Obviously the only exception to my first sentence above is if there is an adoption.

Identity is generally mentioned on the threads I have read on MN whether related to adoption or not.

If you are totally happy with your name being changed that is fine, but I do wonder why you felt the need to write a post in those terms.

Thank you to adoptees posting. I wish more did. It's good to see different opinions too. We really do welcome adoptees' voices.

Sorry, 12 months from/within birth being registered, not since the baby is born.

I think it is inevitable that names need to be changed sometimes, and that given that there are such varying views and feelings about names amongst adults, the assumption should be that it may be a serious thing for the child, even if not all adoptees/children feel the same way, so that when it is being explained sufficient support is given to the child just in case.

I think with young children it does seem that they "adjust" or bounce back quite quickly whereas in fact it is more that they are "accepting", not "adjusting" and at that time they do not always understand or express their own feelings, and so they do not deal talk about it, which is why sometimes problems show up later in childhood. So, parents have to second guess which can be really hard, I think, and this applies to name change or anything else.

I think that in relation to discussing with panel, parents are expected to do what is best for the child and that panel would be looking for an awareness of the potential impact on the child of changing/not changing the name, depending on the circumstances, understanding the child's likely awareness of their name depending on how old the child is, thinking about how the name would work as the child grows, about identity and how the child may feel about it then and in the future.

Thank you ItalianGreyHound.

Brightsunshineatlast do you have a problem with my having a different opinion and experiences from you ? Last time I checked that was allowed on MN.

And no, I don’t have to justify that to you. Adoptees get rather fed up with people telling them they have no right to feel the way they do, it’s very invalidating. I’m suprised you don’t know that if you are a social worker.

You will see that I said that I respect that others feel differently. Perhaps you could extend the same courtesy to me.

orlaith when you wrote It seems that it’s only adoptees whose identity is defined by a word on a piece of paper, other people get to have complex and multi dimensional identities I thought that you were dismissing adoptees who are angry about having had their name changed? If I misunderstood, I absolutely apologise, and yes I agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Do you agree with my later post, and the other points I made?

I am not a social worker, by the way.

No I wasn’t dismissing anyone else’s feelings. On the contrary I wrote this

BTW this is no disrespect to anyone who does feel this way , is just my own opinion and observation

I don’t think that can be any clearer.

Many children and adults change their names for many reasons. I know hundred of women who have done so and a few men. Some regret it and others don’t, that’s indisputable .

Some connect it with identity, others don’t.

There is simply no scientific evidence to prove the often made assertion that it’s always wrong/ bad for a person to change their name. The plural of anecdote is not data.

This fact says nothing about the experiences of individuals , it’s doesn’t make me right and you wrong. But it does means that it’s wrong to say that there is evidence or proof either way, when there’s not.

I apologise for mistaking you for a social worker.

Regarding the changing of a baby’s name on the birth certificate ( not adoption cases ) , here is a link from a registrars office

www.tameside.gov.uk/Registrars/Changing-a-Child-s-Name-After-Registration

This shows that a lot of the information in your post is completely wrong.

You wrote

In fact the situation under law is that you can only change the name on the birth certificate if the child is under 12 months

No, you can change it at any age, as long as you can show that the change took place within 12 months.

If you do it after 12 months, both names with be shown.

and only then if the child has been known by the new name since the baby is born

Again, no it’s not, it’s 12 months .

You can only change a name by deed poll if there are very good reasons for it. This is because it is generally seen as an unhelpful thing to change a child's name, not just in relation to adoption. Obviously the only exception to my first sentence above is if there is an adoption

Again, this is incorrect. As long as everyone with parental responsibility agrees, a child’s name can be changed by deed poll. There is nothing in the guidance that says it has to be for “ very good reasons” or indeed what these might be. It’s sufficient for parents to say that it’s in the child’s best interest and explain why.

You go on to say

This is because it is generally seen as an unhelpful thing to change a child's name, not just in relation to adoption. Obviously the only exception to my first sentence above is if there is an adoption

I cannot find this statement anywhere in the official guidance or legislation. If I am wrong, perhaps you could link to it?

www.gov.uk/government/publications/change-your-childs-name-forms-loc022-loc023-loc024-and-loc026

You have given incorrect information about the law. And you have stated things as if they are the law when in fact they are your own opinion.

This is confusing and misleading, so I feel I should correct it in the interests of clarity and accuracy.

@oleath the situation set out in your link was similar but not the same as the link I looked at for central government and indeed there are slight differences whichever website you look at - you need to look at the original source which I will link for you at some time when I get the chance, doubt it will be today. The key thing which your link and my link was the same about was to do with 12 months in terms of the actual change of name in terms of use (I think your link was slightly unclear but it does mention the 12 months) even if the actual technical change on the bc happens later. Why do you think that there is a cut off point after 12 months, incidentally? The link I looked at most certainly required there to be "good reasons" which needed to be evidenced to change a name by deed poll.

As for scientific evidence to do with changing names of children and identity, again I will have a look for some links for you, but it won't be today.

I think that what you and I would agree on is that everyone is different and what will upset some people will not upset others. And I think that that is fine, it is really helpful to get lots of different viewpoints and I am sorry if I have trodden on your toes (so to speak) with my posts.

@oleath I have just had a look at your link to do with deed polls and if you click on the guidance it says:

An Affidavit of Best Interest is required for all minor’s
applications. There is no set format for this document
however it is required that the person or persons with
parental responsibility complete this and it is sworn
before a Solicitor, Commissioner of Oaths or an Officer
of the Senior Courts.
The Affidavit of Best Interest should state the reason or
reasons why it is in the Minor’s best interest to change
their name.
All applications for change of name of a minor are
referred to the senior master for permission to enrol

I will come back with the other links asap.

Yes that’s correct. It doesn’t say you can only do it if there are very good reasons . It says parents have to say why it’s in the child best Interests. That’s different .

Yes that’s correct. It doesn’t say you can only do it if there are very good reasons . It says parents have to say why it’s in the child best Interests. That’s different .

I don't want to argue about it, but if the deed poll process requires an affidavit stating reasons as to why the name change is in the best interest of the child, I think that you can infer from that that "very good reasons" would be expected to satisfy the court. It amounts to the same thing, as otherwise the affidavit would be pointless, surely?
As to what constitutes "good reasons" you said there was no guidance about that and I couldn't see any either, though I only had a quick look, but it is likely that you would be able to find examples from other sources.

I wish @Kr1stina were here. She’s always thought-provoking on a name thread. She’s good at keeping it one track too

Yes Kristina was a very wise source of knowledge for many reasons.

I may have missed you mentioning this Bright but which perspective are you coming from in the adoption triangle?

@onlyoranges - we have emailed : )

@orlaith I do think sometimes posters minimise the potential impact of a name being changed, and I think the legal position does not minimise and takes it very seriously, a name change isn't just at the discretion of the parents, it seems, as some posters seem to think. I will post again with 2 links which provide sources to better explain this. You picked up mistakes in what I first wrote about the legal side of things and what I should have written was:

"In fact the situation under law is that you can only change the name on the birth certificate if the name is changed (and the child is known by the new name) within 12 months of registering the birth, or if there has been a baptism with a new name within 12 months of registering the birth. You can only change a name by deed poll if there are very good reasons for it, [and I link sources in another post]. I think that this all reflects the fact that changing a name is not helpful unless there are very good reasons for it. [I will also post with advice given by psychologists about changing names in a separate post]. Obviously the only exception to the legal points above is if there is an adoption."

I apologise now for the length of this and the following two posts.

@orlaith Here are 2 links which explain better the legal position about changing a child's name.

To quote one paragraph "when a court has to make a decision about a child’s change of name, it will use its discretion to decide whether or not a change of name would be in the child’s best interests, and if necessary what the child’s name should be. In exercising its discretion, the court is bound to take certain factors into account, though, and to apply certain principles when making a decision." and these are set out in the link, and at the end of the second link it states "Lord Mackay, in the House of Lords....also upheld the same principle, in that the name of a child is not a trivial matter but an important matter, and is not a question to be resolved without regard to the child’s welfare. The case ...was a matter of a change of surname only ... However, it was held in the more recent case of Re W (Children) [2013] .... that the legal test, applying the principles of Dawson v Wearmouth, applies to changes of first name, as well as to changes of surname"

deedpolloffice.com/change-name/children/courts-decision

deedpolloffice.com/change-name/children/courts-decision/name-important

The links include a commentary which references case law - ie the primary source - and to challenge all this (ie if you thought that the commentary was wrong) you would need to look at the cases and check whether any substantive law had been changed by later cases.