Adoption Tearoom - open for business

[MediumPretty]

or maybe a place for me to talk to myself . Not as glamorous as the One Child Families tearoom, just somewhere to have a cyber cuppa and chat.

I went to pick DD (adopted from China) up from school yesterday. Whilst waiting in the playground I got chatting to the grandma of one of her classmates. I find playground chitchat hard work sometimes and I made a lighthearted remark about life since we adopted DD. The perfectly nice Grandma said "it's hard bringing up a child who isn't your own". She said that 30 odd years ago she had fostered two boys for what should have been a few weeks but they stayed with her until adulthood - one was still living at home.

I told her that we think of DD as "our own".

Silence followed then (as the bloody school bell still hadn't gone), I said something inane about enjoying having a daughter and Grandma said "I feel closer to my daughter, than my two sons who are not mine".

She didn't mean any harm with her remarks but it was an insight into how some people view adopted children as somehow less than a birth child and I felt a bit deflated

Just wanted to offload - will nip to M&S for some scones in case any one pops into the tearoom.

Today has been a success Only minor hiccoughs and two very tired kids are IN BED!! I'm snuggled with my laptop in front of Casualty (although I haven't watched in ages and I have no real idea what is going on!)

Hi loflo, I'm sure I didn't eat all the scones earlier

I don't have any biological children, but I know I couldn't love them more than my three. I love my three in different ways..but the same amount (with all my heart) :)

bran, that is so sad. Families can be awful. Not the same thing, but I have a cousin whose parents divorced young. At various times throughout her childhood, her mother said she was another man's child, took it back, said it again. Her father said she was not his child, she was, she was not... This went on, backwards and forwards, despite it being completely obvious that she was her father's child - she was his spitting image. As we grew up I became increasingly aware that though her brother attended family get-togethers, she rarely did, and the extended family seemed to go along with whatever was the current policy on whether she 'belonged' to us or not, usually not inviting her. Deeply shocking and unpleasant.

Anyway, her mum ended up leaving both children with a stepfather, and heading off to pastures new. This stepfather raised all the children with huge devotion, without any help or attention from the birth family.

Fast forward a couple of decades, cousin gets married. Her stepfather gives her away and none of us are invited. Cue my extended family getting very hurt and huffy. And me, cheering her on from the sidelines (and telling her so).

Anyway, today: I took the girls to a summer fair at a local Catholic church, which they LOVED. It was very small and cosy and something out of the 50s. dd1 got her face painted by the vicar's son while dd2 did her usual victory parade, toddling up to all the old ladies beaming and waving. The vicar was very taken with her (he was rather unvicarly - told me he had started life as a builder, and kept saying "Hell's bells!"). He told me that he had been adopted, that he had traced his birth mother but "she wasn't a patch on my real parents". I told him dd2 is adopted (which I think he had assumed) and he said, "Just be sure you always tell her how you chose her" which I guess is very old-fashioned but also terribly sweet.

Incidentally, we sometimes attend another church, where the vicar is also rather salt of the earth and unvicarly, also very nice bloke, and also adopted. There must be something in the water...

It was a very nice day, actually. dd1 kept saying, "We're the loveliest family in the world" and calling her sister "gorgeous sweetheart baby"; dd2 spent the day dancing (and she's shockingly good for someone not yet 2); my washing machine came back from the dead, saving me from having to sell both children in order to finance a replacement.

Aww what a lovely day you had, hester.

The pottery painting cafe we went to was quite expensive; DD wanted to do a Disney Princess ornament for Father's Day but I made her do a mug instead. I'm not in the least bit arty so found it a bit stressful . DH's dad is visiting in a couple of weeks so I said we can go again and she can do the ornament then and grandad can shell out for it

Actually, Father's Day has got me thinking; DD has asked a couple of questions about her birth mother but nothing about her birth father. Has anyone else found that with their children?

OK MrsdeVere - looks like I have been asked to leave the tea room, so will do so. However I don't think my post was out of order in any way. I am no longer a professional (retired 7 years ago) I was merely trying to point out that just because your situation turned out successfully, that is not necessarily the case for others.

LOflo - I agree very much with what you say, that until I have walked in your shoes I will never know how they fit. However that doesn't stop hordes of MNs dolling out advice to someone about something that they have never experienced.

I think you should re-name your thread For "Adoptors" only - and anyway I don't like cake!

nana,your post was accurate and your professional experience. i thought it worthwhile as contribution

Thank you Scottishmummy for your support.

NN, nobody's asked you to leave the thread and I personally hope you don't. I often find your contributions to our discussions very helpful, and I value your professional expertise.

However - and I hope you'll take this in the spirit in which it's intended - there's something about tone and time and place. I think you need to be careful not to use your 30 years experience to 'top trump' others. We may not have professional experience, but the adoptive mothers in this tearoom do know quite a lot - especially MrsDV, who has had to really navigate the system. And sometimes it's just about gauging the mood, knowing when someone needs to be told stuff versus when they just need to be listened to. For example, a while back I started a thread moaning about how how stressful I was finding it to wait to be matched - and you came on and told me off! I didn't need to be told that this was the process; I didn't need to be told that the priority was the child's needs, not mine: I just wanted to let off steam.

That's a trivial example, maybe, but I don't want to use a heavy one. I see you as very much part of the team here, but that's a team of equals. One of the things we all have in common is that we've had to deal with a lot of social workers, who have held power over us, and we don't really want to duplicate that dynamic on here. So stay, muck in, keep a balance (as we must all do) between telling, listening and learning.

Thanks for your post Hester (I'm not in the tea room by the way, but just sitting on a bench outside!) I was mortified that your perception is that I use the 30 years experience to "top trump" others and nothing has been further from my mind. I knew many social workers who felt they had "power" over people and I fully understand why adoptive applicants feel like this and to some extent it is true. I always challenged these social workers (often young, fairly inexperienced and without children) whenever I got the chance. They were trying to prove something to themselves, and if you are secure in yourself and what you are doing, you don't need to prove yourself.

At my leaving do my manager said that I was someone who had championed the rights of foster carers and adoptors for many years, and that many a young and inexperiened social worker was taken to task, should they expect that foster carers and adoptors were Mr and Mrs. Perfect. Sorry I'm going off on one - suppose I am trying to prove to you that I would never try to "top trump" anyone, though I accept that this is how it may come across.

I appreciate your frankness Hester and I take on board your comments about gauging the mood of the posters and knowing when someone wants to know stuff or just wants to be listened to. Can't remember the thread you mention but I had absolutely no notion that I had "told you off" - again I have to accept that that was your perception. I think sometimes I go a bit cold and clinical and don't mean to at all. Also I can type fast (learned when I was 16 at secreterial college) and that can sometimes be a hazard because my posts often seem to come out of my finger tips!

I would never actively seek to minimise the experience of you adoptors and think that you are all giving your children what every child deserves, a permanent, stable and loving home. I made that point in my first post. I think this thread started off with an adoptor being shocked by a woman saying that she had fostered 2 boys on a temporary basis, but they stayed on and she did not feel the same for them as she did her birth child. Mrs DeVere posted that she too was in that position - she had not set out to adopt her child but had done so and all was well and I did say I was very glad for her that things had turned out well. However I think the inference was that this other unknown woman should feel the same as her, and I just don't think that's fair. My comment was clearly seen as more critical than it had meant to be, and FWIW I think Mrs Devere did ask me to leave the tea room!!

I totally understand that you have felt (with justification) that social workers have held power over you and you don't want that dynamic repeated here.

So I will leave you adoptors with good grace and wish you all well. I might peep through the windows of the tea room sometime!!

I havent asked you to leave Nana.

The tearoom is open to everyone who is interested.

But its not really a debate board. Its more of a chat and moan and laugh board.

E.g. I doubt the ladies on the infertility boards would appreciate someone going on their and telling them 'just relax, I had a friend who did that and got pregnant straight away!' or on the weight loss boards 'you should all just love yourself the way you are - dont give in to society norms!'

It may be correct, it may be well meant but its not the right place.

As adoptive parents we also have a lot of people telling us what we should and shouldnt do. How we should feel about b.parents, how we should see our relationship with our children, how we shouldnt 'put everything down to adoption' etc. It can be very waring when all you want to do is have a bit of a moan about what you SIL said last tuesday.

There is the Adoption Uk site and its excellent but a bit on the heavy side. People tend to post when they are having difficulties so it can be a bit scarey.

There is no need for you to take umbrage. I was just pointing out that, however accurate your post, I really didnt think there was a need for it at this point. I dont want to discuss it, I just want to say I LOVE MY SON.

If I had wanted you to leave I would have said 'I dont want you here'. I am not one to play games. There is no such request in my post.

I am sure you can understand how we have been under siege from people who want to tell us what we should do or feel. You have spent a fair bit of your time and energy fighting the trolls yourself.

Oh please Mrs Devere - don't think I have taken umbrage - I understand fully what you are saying. I have already acknowledged to Hester that there is a time and place for asking for advice, and this is as you say a chat room for adoptors and I can see that my post was out of place. Maybe I over reacted to your post Mrs Devere - so sorry if I did.

I wasn't being that serious when I said I'd been asked to leave the tea room, although I don't much care anyway for these cyber tea rooms and cyber gardens etc., though I can see how many MNs really like them - SO - please accept my apologies for anything that offended - I am not going off in a "huff" - just retreating gracefully as I see your point, which was made so well by Hester.

My good wishes to you all (and enjoy the cakes/scones/biscuits etc!)

I am glad you didnt really think I was kicking you out Nana. I wouldnt dream of such a thing!

Personally I think this is a chat room for adoption not adopters IYSWIM.

So glad I found this cosy little tearoom. Do you have any of those cakes with strawberries and cream in the middle with the red glaze over the top please? If you have I'll have 2 please and a latte - Oops better make that a skinny latte.

I love my kids too - most of the time but I don't today that's why I am out in this awful weather looking for somewhere to go for some peace. I'm glad I found this new place. Would you mind if I come here every day?

As long as you bring cakes

Oh God! That means I have to go home and start cooking....... Or can I bring some in a Gregg's carrier bag?

Is that NanaNina sitting outside on the bench in the rain? "Come on in Nina. You are getting soaked. Don't be daft! Mrs Devere didn't mean it. She said she'll buy you a coffee and a blueberry muffin. Come on.... in you come you daft bugger!" :)

MediumPretty - I notice that 2 of my children focus more on their first mothers, not the fathers - but especially DD2. I think because she loves her mum, who is definitely a presence in her life, and she knows that her biological father abused her mum, there's a loyalty issue going on. Like she feels she's letting her mum down if she asks too many questions. But also, she has men issues in general, so that clouds it. She's definitely part interested, part hostile, she does want to know all about him, but she's also angry with him

DD1 was always incredibly scared of and hostile towards both bios, but again, her 'mother' was the focus of most questions and anger. I'm not quite sure why, but maybe because her foster mum before me and me, both single women, and she experienced proper care from us, so she keenly felt what she should have got from her first mother but didn't??

DS isn't hugely interested at the moment, but he is the opposite - cares more about his father. But I think that's because I'm a single mum, and he doesn't have a dad, so the idea of a biological father out there fascinates him. I think he does want a dad, which makes me sad because he won't ever get a dad, although he could meet his father and maybe have a father/son type relationship later, it won't be the same :( However, I think Maryz is right - when talking adoption, the early explanation is that they grew in someone else's tummy, and the child won't know about sex yet, so a father doesn't figure in that. I guess most young children would think about another mother, and then start thinking more about the father later on

Today, it's relax time, after yesterday! Medium Pretty - the pottery painting cafe we went to yesterday has raised it's prices, which weren't cheap to begin with! DS did a small plate, DD2 did a small bear (and names it after ME!!!)

I am rereading LOTR - on the Twin Towers right now. They are the best books, you just get lost in all the intricate details. I'm a big fan of fantasy worlds, real life books don't let you escape in the same way! DD2 is sulking for no reason, so she's doing in her room whilst eating huge quantities of fruit and cereal bars from her special bowl. DS is running around with his lightsaber, he says he's Superman. I haven't pointed out that Superman doesn't have a lightsaber, but I am wondering why I let my brother give it to him in the first place!!

DS doesnt ask about b.dad. OH is his dad and thats it.

We dont really know who his b.dad is anyway

Welcome fishtank - we don't have a poncey coffee machine (yet!) but I can make you a milky coffee if you don't mind instant?

Now I'm hungry - was watching F1 with DD2 but the stop means it's now convenient to grab some more scones with jam and cream!
Think some tea wouldn't go amiss either

Can I have a seat in the tea room even though we don't have our adopted child yet?

We have a 10 year old ds and are on the home stretch of our adoption journey. We are on tenterhooks at the moment - there is an eight month old baby girl who will become available for international adoption on June 30th if noone comes forward to adopt her before then. That's 2 weeks and 4 days. And I know I should be hoping that she is adopted by a Russia family so that she can stay in the country of her birth, but I can't be that good of a person, I just can't. I'm already in love with her and picturing her here in my family.

All along we've been anticipating a boy as we didn't have a gender preference and those who do specify a preference usually ask for a girl (makes me grrrrrrr, boys are just SO lovely) so it's a bit to be hopefully getting a girl. We have had so so many disappointments along this road but I feel extraordinarily optimistic now. It feels right.

Anyway, what I came on the thread to say was what my mam said when I told her we were adopting and asked her straight how she'd feel about a 'forrin' grandchild (we were originally to go to Vietnam and wondered how she would feel about a non-white child, she's nearly 80 and probably doesn't personally know a non-white person). Her resonse was "families are made with love, not with blood".

Of course lettinggo! Welcome :)

It must be a nervous couple of weeks for you! Of course you want her to be with you, and that's best if no Russian family can come forwards. Hope the days go quickly as possible

Finally F1 has restarted!! DD2 and I are in front of it with some chocolate (and the laptop), and DS is in bed. I love my boy! I understand the preference for a girl, because I had that first time around, but now I just couldn't imagine not having a boy