Should adoptive parents arrange contact meetings between the adopted child and his or her bio-family?

[wasthatthatguy]

I think the answer to this question is yes, but clearly no child should be made to meet anyone he or she is afraid of meeting? Apart from that, I think such meetings would be of benefit to all concerned, especially the child.

Oh God he's off again spouting the same old bullshit.

But it's a lovely day here and not even this old rubbish can annoy me today. You're just a very ignorant and silly person.

Thatstupidguy - you have a very fertile imagination. There is no such mental disorder as paranoid child abuse psychosis, except of course in your warped mind. But talking of psychosis (as in being out of touch with reality) I would get yourself to your GP for a psychiatric assessment asap.

Maryz - didn't know we were allowed to tell people to fuck off on MN but your fucks offs made me smile and since it seems this is considered personally offensive I will add my voice to yours - so fuck right off fuckwitguy.

I know I said we should ignore him and I think everyone has done a brilliant job (even if I did get a bit bored with the perm talk) but he is so provocative I can't always help myself smashing his nonsensical arguments to pieces - not at all difficult of course.

Adoptive Parents should not be allowed to arrange contact meetings with the adopted child and bio parents without prior approval and preferably prior arrangement through social services and with the consent of the family court.

Whilst I understand all the previous posters dislike of thatthat or his motivation for posting, I simply disagree with his answer.

The thought of an ill informed adoptive parent who is not up to date with the Bio Parents current emotional/mental condition merrily arranging a meeting is horrific !

Just thought I would highlight this post as it's some very important information that a lot of people could take on board.
I'm a birth mother and even on the day the judge forced through the adoption of my child against my will, (10yrs ago) it was highlighted that I had not harmed my child, but may do so in the future because of depression.
I now have another two children (and do not suffer depression) who they do not think I risk harming, and are safely with me and I'm a damn good mother.
It is very important that people know that not all adopted children have been abused or neglected. I placed my child in temporary care when feeling like I was having a breakdown, when I was only a teenager myself, because I wanted to prevent me possibly neglecting him, because I knew I was not in the right state, and so he was never neglect as such. When I tried to get him back SS did not agree.
Of 3 cases of forced adoption I personally know of, one was due to actual neglect and abuse.
So please listen to what us people on the other side of adoption are saying.

wasthatthatguy Thu 21-Apr-11 10:35:53
fishtankneedscleaning Children are removed from their bio-parents for a whole range of reasons ranging from marginal to extreme.

Ladies Some of the children who become available for forced adoption, ie adoption without the consent of their parent(s), haven't been significantly harmed before being adopted, but have a parent or parents who the Local Authority social workers don't approve of for one reason or another, eg take drugs or have some sort of mental disorder, which the social workers believe is likely to lead to the child suffering harm in the future, if left in the care of the parent(s). In these cases it is unlikely that the child will have perceived any problems with his or her parent(s), and may well feel he or she has been stolen from them, or rejected by them for some unknown reason. I think direct contact should be arranged between these children and their bio-parents as soon as possible post adoption, so that they can know that they were not rejected by them, but nevertheless have to live with their adoptive parents because their bio-parents have been judged to be less capable of looking after them.

So in this post that I've quoted, this guy brings up adopted children having contact with their bio parent(s) where the child had not been harmed by that parent.
In all seriousness, what do you guys think of that. If I may put my own situation forward. I'm a good mother to 2 children.
Should I be able to see my first child who is with adoptive parents?
Should I have any rights to see my 10 yr old son who was taken from me? Who I gave birth to and breastfed and cared for soley for his first 5 months, before handing him over to be 'cared for temporarily' and then mourned over for for 3 yrs and miss terribly.

I don't expect anyone to say yes, and I don't expect that the law will allow me to see my child, but not being able to cannot be put due to him being upset because of neglect or abuse I did to him, because I didn't do that.
I am interested in what reasoning there is for OR against me having contact, and I won't attack anyone for having different opinions.

Your kind of off topic, the question is about adoptive parents arranging contact with bio parents. Which is not a good idea as adoptive parents may not be in possession of all the facts, the potential unsupervised meeting could end in tragedy for all involved.

To address the possibility of incorrectly removing children from parents in the first place many changes have already happened, independent assessments are made outside of government SS controls to decide if parents are capable, this lengthens greatly the amount of time a child is in Foster Care prior to adoption which in most cases is detrimental.

Nobody could possibly answer your questions without knowing all the facts

Oh I'm happy to hear of that change, I didn't know that had happened :) That would be much better.

Okay, excuse me; On topic;
I think adoptive parents should be able to have contact with birthmothers without SS involved, unless there has been abuse.

So you think the potential threat to a child is ok ?

There may not have been abuse, but there was a potential for it, could that potential threat be realised at this uninformed meeting ?

Only way to arrange the meeting is through SS and the family courts.

My dd came to us through a "forced adoption" where she had been removed at birth because of the risk of neglect. We agreed to twice yearly direct contact because we believed it was in DDs best interest to know her birth mother. DD is only 4 but she is aware of her birth mother and looked forward to contact.
BM didn't turn up to the last contact a few months ago. No one can contact her.
Now I have a 4 year old who is asking me why didn't come to see her. I worry that all my good intentions will now mean that DD will feel rejected by her BM when previously she just accepted that **grew her in her tummy and loved her but wasn't able to look after her.

I actually wish I had never agreed to direct contact.
To answer the question, our contact dates were arranged by SS but we supervised them ourselves. This worked for us as we have a very in depth knowledge of DDs case and the reasons for her adoption. In normal cases I would say adoptive parents should never arrange contact.

princess the threat my son was adopted for, 'possible future emotional harm' because of me being depressed during that time, is not existant now, if it was I wouldn't be looking after my 2 younger children now, and believe me we have enough professionals and agencies involved due to my son's special needs, no one has even thought of me being neglectful or any risk, I'm safely taking care of them.
I think my older son's adoptive parents and I are all grown ups and can decipher between us what we want to do. I would like to meet them infact, I'm not rushing any contact with my son, but I think me having direct contact with his a-parents is important and for us to decide, not social workers who have far too much on their plate to really think properly about it anyway.

There's always a risk of this type of thing. A divorced mother would still ideally want the father to have contact, even for all his flaws and him possibly destroying the marriage, a court would grant him visits, even with the risk that he may go AWOL, that's a risk you take, because that's their father.
Even fathers who've beaten their wives get access to children where there's no history of him hurting the kids.
I didn't only carry my children for 9 months, but breastfed him for another 5 months, never harmed a hair on his head. I just wasn't good enough. I have no rights at all, and I'm not just anybody, my child will see me as important, he already writes to me in his own handwriting and if I go near him, what I get a restraining order?
It's not natural.
I can see why people must implement unnatural laws in extreme cases where parents have hurt their children, but I've never done that.

yukoncher
My DS had contact with his birth mum without the involvement of SS. She used to come to our house without any restrictions etc.
She is related to us. This is how we always wanted it to be. From the very first moment we agreed to care for him and then when it became apparent he would not be going back to her.

She is the one that sabotaged it, not us, not the SS and certainly not our son.
She would not turn up or turn up in a daze. She would then go and slag us off to all and sundry. I put up with the slagging off because I tried to put myself in her postion.

She then stopped turning up for about 9 mths. Then she began hassling us when our DD was dx with cancer. She was ranting about our DD getting all the attention just because she was sick. She was still having letter box contact at the time and would send cards with DS's pre adoption surname underlined and threats of how we had better be looking after him.

She then sent me a text demanding to see him. I was at the hospital with DD at the time who had just relapsed. I told her to leave us for a while and she sent me a text back telling me she hoped DD would soon be dead.

She phoned me a few weeks before DD's death demanding we bring her son round to see her for HER birthday.

I had the police at DD's funeral to prevent her turning up and causing a scene.

She STILL had letterbox contact, direct to us.

She refused to tone down her letters and I felt DS had been through enough.
So I passed it all over to SS. They took one look at the next card she sent and asked to see her to talk it over.

She spent months going back and forth and making demands but refusing to change a word. In the meantime she went and got legal aid and fooled a solicitor into sending us letters demanding we allow her to see her son. Even though he was legally adopted and no solicitor would advise a birth parent that they had any right to contact.

So the door is still open for contact but she refuses to compromise. We put our foot down after 4 years and all I have described above.

If SS had been involved from the start we would have been saved the distress she caused us AND my DD. She upset my DD and for that I will not forgive. She still contacts me everyso often to stir up trouble. She has publicly announced that my DD died because I stole her son.

Do you think we should open up contact without the input of SS?

thefirstMrsDeVere
I'm sorry for all you've been through with the unstable BM and for the loss of your DD.
Of course, I think you have every right to say no to contact without SS support .

Sorry for the rant yukoncher it really wasnt directed at you although it must have come across like that.

I think the point is I really hate the way the guy who starts these threads makes adoptive parents part of the problem.
The majority of parents I have come across are very pro contact because they care so deeply for the welfare of their children. Its very rare to hear a bad word said about birth parents at adoption gatherings. If anything is said its always qualified with 'but I know what a terrible life s/he had' and a guilty look incase they are over heard.

I think I put up with stuff from birth mum that , in other circumstances, no one would be expected to. The main reason I put up with it was because I so wanted DS to have a relationship with his birth mum. I am no push over, I am not scared of her and tbh she is no match for me. I felt incredibly guilty about handing it over to SS and was amazed when the put a stop to contact. It was only then I could look at what had really been happening. Contact HAS to be for the child. It cannot not take place unless it has real benefits for the child.

I am sorry you have lost you son. It must be agony for you. You seem from your posts to be a nice person. You are clearly nothing like DS's birth mother so yes, its unfair that you are in affect being treated like her.

aw thank you, you're incredibly thoughtful. My son's adoptive mum is a sweetheart too, and says I may be able to see DS in a couple of years, if DS asks to see me.

You did put up with a lot! I'm sorry it all turned out bad :(
I understand why you'd want to move on without her, and without anyone if all they're contributing is trouble to yours and your childrens' lives.

I think any birth mother needs time to come to terms with the adoption, which took years in my case. I'm in a good place now with it all, but in the few years after the adoption I'm not sure I would have been so good, or given them anything helpful. I would say I'm 'reformed' lol from being a mother again, especially to my DS with SN, the last 4 yrs have been so exhausting, and fulfilling too. I think if you're a birth mother who's seperated from a child and don't have any motherly role day in day out you don't realise how much of a massive task mothering is and get all silly about ownership or the child and dson't put the child's needs first. Motherhood brings me back down to earth, when you're dedicated day in day out there is no room to get on a high horse and say I want I want, because you know that everything should be for the wellbeing of the child.
It isn't necessarily agony for me now, I'm just moving forward and really hoping that DS is okay in his life and not really expecting too much, put hoping that I can be more involved with him in future.

Yeah, I can see what you mean.
What kind of structure could you have to it to prevent that happening? Contact at a childrens' centre?
It's just that seeing one's home could be considered as showing what kind of person they are and getting to know them more, and having comfortable time with them, and creating some good memories. Actually, holidaying together could do that.

I would take anything I could get, regardless.

I have seen examples of very open adoptions in the US yukon.
I also know of one family that kept a very open adoption with the birth father. It seems to have worked out ok. However on listening to the adoptive mother talk, I couldnt help but wonder if she would have done the same thing with the birth mother if she had still be alive. I have to say - I came to the conclusion that she wouldnt have.

I will probably get to find out about teenagers and birth mothers in 6 years or so. My DS will know how to find her and I am sure her lifestyle will be more appealing than ours for a while.

But I honestly think that he would be pretty worried about contact with her now. Not because he knows what she is like. We have only ever been positive with him about her. He got freaked out when we showed him photos of them together. He was worried we were going to send him back.

I think open adoptions are the ideal. I just dont think that many of us are ideal enough ourselves to be able to cope with them. Adoptive and birth families.

Do you think you will be able to have contact with your DS? It
sounds as if it will be a possibility one day as you have kept a good relationship with the adoptive parents. I hope you do and it all goes well for everyone. These things are so complex though I wouldnt know how to make it 'safe' for everyone involved.

That's the problem, teenagers can think the grass is greener, I rememebr my childhood friend for example, thinking her dad whom she saw once a month was a saint and that it would be so great to live with him, then she became an adult and realised all her mum went through looking after her alone and appreciated it and had more respect for her mum.

Sigh, I'm in a bit of a situation with what I should do about contact between the a-parents at the moment, I need to decide within the next couple of days. Not sure I should discuss it openly on here though as it'll be obvious who I am if they come on here perhaps?

yukoncher, I'm really getting a lot from reading your posts - thank you. I also think that many adoptive parents would be prepared to consider open adoption. Certainly, we tried to adopt a child where there would be regular direct contact with the birth father - sadly, he objected to us and so the deal was off.

In many, many cases, though, it's just not possible. There is no way we could meet my dd's birth father, because he is (a) extremely violent, and (b) after our guts. It's not the same with the birth mother, but I just think it wouldn't work. Her life is very chaotic (she has already not turned up to appointments to meet us); during the several weeks that dd was in special care, she turned up to see her just once, and was so out of her tree the nurses got her out. I just don't see her turning up to regular appointments, sober and able to prioritise dd's needs. But never say never; I will certainly keep up letterbox contact, and if she gets into a better place I would certainly consider direct contact.

I hope it doesn't come across wrong, yukoncher, if I say that I suspect that more birth mothers are like my dd's mother than are like you. Not terrible people, but chaotic and so mired in problems that they can't see clearly the child's needs and manage to put them first. That doesn't lend itself to sustaining direct contact, frankly, but I think for the sake of our children we should all consider it very seriously where it is possible.

Yuchonker - I am a little confused about one or two things. You say that your son's a- mother is a "sweetheart" and has said you may be able to have contact in a couple of years if your son asks to see you. Yet you say you have to make your mind up about contact in the next couple of days - did you mean years?

You are clearly in touch with your son as he writes to you, and I'm sure you will accept that you should not just turn up in his life - presuming you know where he lives? This is usually not known by birthmothers. I think you case is very unusual and I remember you were only 16 and presumably without family support. From reading your first posts I thought you hadn't even been in court when the decision was made, but then you talked about not knowing what to say in court. Did you have a solicitor acting for you? Anyway it's water under the bridge now isn't it.

The thing is that none of this as I'm sure you accept is not the fault of the a -mother and it sounds like you are in touch with each other. In terms of contact for the future, I think it is up to your son, and what he wants to do. Once an adoption order is made SSD have nothing more to do with the case, unless the adoptors need support in the early months of placement.

I agree with Hester's post and from my experience the situation that she describes is far more usual. I once placed a 2 year old boy for adoption and when he was about 12 he started asking questions about his birth parents. The adoptors called me in (as I was still working in the same LA) and eventually it was agreed (a little reluctantly) by the adoptors that the birth mother could actually meet the boy as this is what she wanted. The adoptors and myself took the boy to meet his mother (she only lived about 15 miles away) and when she saw him she just looked him up and down (sort of deadpan) and when he spoke she said "Oh my god they've turned you into a right little snobby git" - needless to say the visit was cut short but it caused the boy a great deal of trauma and the adoptors were very upset and were to nice to blame me but I always felt badly about it.

Anyway it's interesting to hear from a birthmother. Do you think it's worth starting a thread to see if there are any other birthmothers out there, who might want to "talk"

Hi, there's been so many great, long well thought out posts directed to me in part, I wanted to respond, but things have been so hectic, my puppy got ran over and had to have surgery to try and save his leg, has just been discharged and is home.

The thing about contact I was talking about, is that;
I have written to the adopters and my son; directly to their house.
The social worker slipped out their surname and I tracked them down on the electrol roll. I left a present for my son on his doorstep on christmas eve with the letters. This was my first contact to them, even after they'd wrote me twice a year for 8 yrs.
My son turned 10 yesterday and I very much wanted to send another present.
But after christmas they responded to me saying they were all shocked at me knowing where they lived, and although my letters were nice they wanted me to use the SS postal thing for contact.
My 'beef' with social services is unreal. I just cannot write a letter with the knowledge that they'd be going through it.
I got my son a birthday card, tried to fill it in, got him a toys r us giftcard, wrote a few pages, wrote a few pages to the a-parents, called SS for advice, really thought long and hard about it.
It got to the point where if I'd sent it through the postbox contact my son wouldnt get it in time for his birthday, so that's when I was considering just sending it to their house. That was the dilemma of not knowing whether I should have sent it directly.
I ended up not sending anything. Perhaps a-parents will be a little relieved at my lack of contact, as they were a little shaken at me knowing where they are. Perhaps my son will be dissapointed at no contact.
I feel so annoyed at myself for not sending that card. But it's so difficult knowing SS reading through it. The added pressure is like the weight of a ton of bricks.
Perhaps if I hadn't found their address, they wouldn't have heard from me at all.
I recieved a thankyou card from my son saying he liked my present at xmas, i relieved another letter from him telling me what stuff he likes. I wanna write back to him but I'm so angered the corrupt SS will be reading though my personal letters and judging what's acceptable, etc. I just have such an issue with SS that I can't bring myself to do it.

Good idea about a birth mums' thread! :)