Who is English?

[mids2019]

I see reform have started a debate about the meaning of being English which has stirred a few feathers. To my mind anyone who is born in the country is English..

I would say moving to a country does not necessarily make you a national of a country e.g. if I moved the South of Spain as a retired I don't know if could reasonably call my self Spanish but children of English people definitely could.

One thing that is worth debate is how you frame heritage and is this important? For instance would 2nd.generation immigrants from India would want to be referred as English but if Indian oriigin? Is there an actual desire for people of foreign heritage to maintain a part of their identity connected to their country of family origin for cultural reason?

I usually say white british rather than English
my gg grandad was west African but I wouldn’t say I’m mixed race same as I wouldn’t reference my Irish ancestry

Yeah, today's woke world loves to make English people feel bad about being English. We weren't the only ones going around empire-building; many European nations were at it. And we have so many achievements to be proud of. English people invented the first computer, the modern computer, the Worldwide Web, vaccination, steam engines, shorthand, pencils, jet engines, and so much more. We also made massive contributions to understanding the world around us by formulating the law of universal gravitation and by helping to explain evolution by discovering the law of natural selection. And that's even before we've considered the English contribution to literature, art, and music.

All these people who put England down can get in the bin.

Many of the things on your list aren't uniquely English. And those churches sound Norman, those dogs came from Canada, tweed originated in Scotland and Ireland. England is not the only country brewing 'real ale' and the sense of humour isn't much different in my non-UK country of my parents.

It sounds like you identify with your little pocket of England. Where I live we have very dramatic countryside not soft and green. Many people don't see any green countryside on a daily basis.

I identify as my locality, eg, Yorkshire, my ethnicity (not English) and my nationality, British, in no particular order. I'd argue that the things on your list represent Britain in some way but not exclusively. I imagine France has a few Norman village churches for example.

Can you explain why you are comparing yourself moving to Lagos and calling yourself Yoruba, presumably without having any pre-existing ties or connections to Nigeria or Yoruba culture, with the experience of someone who was born in England, went to school in England and has been steeped in English culture throughout his life?

How are those two examples similar?

The empire invested in infrastructure, institutions and developed and codified rule of law.

Just to mention we are not the only country to have had an empire.
The Persians had one. Russia had one. France had one.
Many countries told Britain to ‘go back home’. And Britain did.

I know lots of people, myself included who describe themselves as English. I'm not ashamed of being English why would I be.

Being English does exist as does England. England wasn't created by people being polite, tolerant and accepting of all cultures and faiths. We have been tolerant in recent years but it seems people have taken advantage of this and are now telling us we don't exist and that there is no such thing as English culture, pretty ungrateful imo.

I think most people are a mixture of different cultures. I have friends in Singapore they are born in Singapore but originate from China, culturally I have lots in common with them and then there are things I don’t have in common with them primarily on education and raising children.
But that also applies to my British friends I’m a totally slack non pushy liberal parent but have friends who would give my Singaporean friends a run for their money on the pushy front.
Globalisation has open up the world people no longer live in the country they were born and bred in let alone the same road, cheap travel, the internet TV etc has enabled average people to experience different cultures and experiences and adopt the ones that resonant with them if they wish too. We no longer live in splendid glorious isolation. My grand parents lived in a tiny village in the back of back of the beyond, in the 60’s and 70’s most of the village had never been more than 10 miles away, few had ever made it to the nearest city 40 miles away. I doubt any has seen someone whose skin wasn’t white. We no longer live in that world. I believe that is a good thing.

It's possible to identify as English - and therefore to believe that "being English" does exist, while also recognising that it is an inherently slippery concept that has no legal or scientific definition.

As such, it comes down to a question of personal identity.

No-one is trying to erase the English, don't be so silly 🙄

Who is this 'we' you're talking about. I'm not ashamed of anything. It's ridiculous to even think like that.

If your ethnicity is English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh - you are also British.

If you were born here to parents/grandparents of another ethnicity, but are a British citizen, then you're British. But not English, Irish, etc.

If you were born elsewhere to English, Irish etc parents, then you're English, Irish and also British.

We've had this discussion recently on MN, and the above is what I took from it.
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@MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack you didn’t answer my last question.

I agree with you. I think Sunak is English. I don’t think it’s skin colour dependent.

However why is it acceptable and fine to say Palestinians are entitled to their land as they’re the ‘true ethnic people’ and ‘there first’, but this logic isn’t applied to white Western countries?

Who is trying to kick us out?

That is all very rural. Are cockneys not English?

Ok but is everywhere the same in your view?

There’s no difference at all anymore and you could be in China, Japan, France or Australia and it all seems the same?

Not just adopting things but actually the same

I haven't said anything about the Palestinians being the "true ethnic people"? I don't even know what that means?

Does it matter if we share culture - absolutely it does. And it is important to make a clear distinction between multiracial and multi culture.

Mary Seacole was of Scottish Jamaican heritage but was thoroughly British in culture shown through her actions as was Walter Tull. Both are simply examples of the legacy of British history and both were very much British.

Whereas multiculturalism which creates separate, competing systems of norms, values, and behaviors to replace a unified national identity. This in turn creates causes societal fragmentation, parallel communities and declining social trust.

Diversity of race should be an irrelevance, whereas diversity of culture is not a strength but a weakness.

I am!

Im a dog that was born in a stable therefore i am a horse

I see it as a completely unnecessary debate and those pushing it as intending to cause division. Accepted you need a nationality for a passport, tax domicile and right to work but otherwise it's as relevant as height, hair colour and shoe size.

Those making a big thing about it are trying to be divisive, accepting that others then have to join the debate to challenge it.

Yes England exists as does Devon and Staffordshire and Hampshire and lots of other geographical areas and regions and many had and may have their own unique cultures and customs. But if you go to say Hampshire now it maybe hard to find them because it’s become a homogenised area known as the south east. Maybe the good burgers of Hampshire resent their loss of culture. Maybe they too are angry that their tolerance has been taken advantage of.
I am still struggling to see what English culture is especially if all it is an accent, Guy Fawkes, fish and chips, pies, quaint villages castles white cliffs and cathedrals (and we don’t have a monopoly on any of those) and Morris dancing, (I’m not convinced that other countries don’t indulge in similar strange dancing). And we still have all of this no one is trying to take it away. If you feel a need to identify to say this is English culture and it makes you feel better well that’s great. I just don’t see it as being English or indeed British..

People of different nationalities or ethnicities aren't different species.

Its an example