Who is English?

[mids2019]

I see reform have started a debate about the meaning of being English which has stirred a few feathers. To my mind anyone who is born in the country is English..

I would say moving to a country does not necessarily make you a national of a country e.g. if I moved the South of Spain as a retired I don't know if could reasonably call my self Spanish but children of English people definitely could.

One thing that is worth debate is how you frame heritage and is this important? For instance would 2nd.generation immigrants from India would want to be referred as English but if Indian oriigin? Is there an actual desire for people of foreign heritage to maintain a part of their identity connected to their country of family origin for cultural reason?

The Scots were neck deep in colonialism and slavery!

How bizzare to assume I blame minorities to say that being English isn’t something to be allowed to be proud of! You sum it up perfectly, being English and being completely oblivious to what’s been pointed out several times!

So who are you blaming for your perceived lack of flag bearing in England?

You said Italy, Germany and Belgium so all countries that are nearby.

Alergia, Morocco and Tunisia etc are more distinct culturally from France.

I mean many women have lovely trips to France but experience horrible wretched harassment and assault in Morocco and Tunis.

It’s not about blame it’s pointing out if you’re proud to be Scottish or Welsh it’s patriotic and a positive thing but saying you’re proud to be English can raise eyebrows and there is an undertone by some that you’re racist. British not so much but the English flag and Scottish flag are viewed differently one patriotic one is racist

Labour politicians such as the one below, it reminds me of Emily Thornberry who made a similar idiotic gaff. All that kind of sneering and claims that English traditions don’t exist. They don’t help themselves.

And plenty who probably agree with them add to it.

But racists in Scotland don’t fly the saltire.

What pointless judgement. England doesn’t have to hide all their cultural elements. If you’re proud others probably are in other countries.

I don't know what it is about you and quotes. Try reading the posts I'm responding to. You're starting to get on my nerves.

I'm wondering (maybe?) If thats because some Scottish and Welsh see themselves as opressed by Westminster and their culture is not the dominant uk one due to numbers, so its seen as patriotic to wave a flag, but actually it does have a this is our country vibe, its just the message is for the english with power not a recent immigrant.

England doesnt have that message to give. We arent trying to differentiate our self from a more dominant culture in a partnership or prove we are distinct and proud of our difference. The right wing have hijacked that this is my country vibe to push down on immigrants rather than up at Westminster - outside of sport and ceremonies where lots of flags are happily waved. I am proud to be english but with regard to a flag, who i am I telling, why do they need to know, i guess?

They do though? There were pics in news of it

Oh well. I feel similarly.

The left have also contributed to the issue with the rhetoric as embodied by the politicians with the lab stuff or white van man tweet.

If other countries can be said to be rich with traditions or they have pride England can too. Reading some of these threads where pp claim there’s no English culture or question traditions does seem specific to here.

Where else gets that rather than recognition of traditions?

A racist march?

Good. Best just leave it there then.

Yes I agree they are remarked upon differently. Same as English traditions.

Its interesting r as english working class culture has masses to be proud of and id associate the left with working class really so youd expect more pride from there than maybe the more elite people who maybe owned mills and voted against famine rekief etc. Its funny how things turn out really.

Yes.

Was it this one? It’s the only one I can find.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/oct/13/compassion-stronger-than-division-glasgow-battle-over-saltire-picture-essay

The political left is fairly divorced from wc now. Although Labour has realised they need them after all, hence Burnham and his have a pint at the footie stuff.

It’s a bit weak, not sure his shine will last. It’s more to do with Starmer really winding people up on the topic of this thread.

Cornish then English

As we said earlier in the thread, there is no single “English Culture” that applies to everyone. So if someone offers a particular list of English customs which are only relevant to a small percentage of the population, a lot of people are going to look at that list and think “None of that resonates with me. If it’s those things that make you English, then I mustn’t be English”. I’ve never seen a maypole. I’ve never seen Morris dancing (except on tv) and I was in my 40s when I first saw a Bowler Hat.

To me, English culture is music, art and literature. Our history. Our character - our sense of fairness and doing the right thing. It’s our humility and our sarcastic sense of humour. It’s the things we all have in common. It’s not rolling a pork pie down a hill on the third Tuesday after Whit or some other weird custom that hasn’t happened anywhere except Randomshire since 1697. I think that’s the point the Labour MP was making.

By all means, enjoy your local customs but don’t tell us they’re what make you English.

Is there any single culture for any country?

Why would I tell you that? You can choose what you like.

There have been some posts claiming England alone doesn’t have a culture and some thinking there’s no English traditions.

By all means keep your own list, in fact that’s why the posts that repeatedly ask well what are they then are misplaced. The French don’t get this well list your traditions and if you don’t they mustn’t exist. Nor do the Japanese or anyone else.

England has rich traditions, and a culture and it doesn’t even have to be exactly the same for everyone. Just as it isn’t for French people, Australian or Chinese.

Re the Labour politician obviously the things she listed do resonate with some people which is why she shouldn’t say it doesn’t exist for them.

Following their thought process, there is no back peddling happening here. The point made right from the start was, we all know what is being suggested and it’s that only white people can truly be English. You might call that “playing the victim” but it’s really bloody obvious to anyone who is honest about where we are as a society. To pretend describing white skin is offensive is not only laughable but it tells me everything I need to know as a person.