Who is English?

[mids2019]

I see reform have started a debate about the meaning of being English which has stirred a few feathers. To my mind anyone who is born in the country is English..

I would say moving to a country does not necessarily make you a national of a country e.g. if I moved the South of Spain as a retired I don't know if could reasonably call my self Spanish but children of English people definitely could.

One thing that is worth debate is how you frame heritage and is this important? For instance would 2nd.generation immigrants from India would want to be referred as English but if Indian oriigin? Is there an actual desire for people of foreign heritage to maintain a part of their identity connected to their country of family origin for cultural reason?

I have a friend who worked in China for 6 years. His ex-wife and kids are still over there, and the children (now adults) intend to stay, but they won't ever be eligible for Chinese citizenship, as far as I understand.

On my mother's side, it's all English (it's all Hampshire) back to the 18th century, which is as far as anyone has traced. My father's side is similar, except they travelled more and there's some Welsh and Irish in there. So I guess I'm English. My surname apparently has Anglo-Saxon origins.

I've preferred my jobs where there are people from all different backgrounds/nationalities, and I don't support politicians like SB or JRM.

Most of these discussions become simply discussions about definitions, which aren’t helpful and don’t address the real issue, which is that a huge number of people have arrived here who are very culturally different, and many of whom don’t contribute or contribute little, and that’s causing social problems. Is that person ‘English’ or not? It just depends what you mean by ‘English’, but no one was asking the question thirty years ago, the fact we’re asking it now is because many people feel we have problems.

If you are non white, not born here, have a surname that is foreign sounding and practice any religion other than Christianity, then you are not English…… I think that is the rules of Reform and the like.
I personally fail one of these with an Irish surname, I consider myself English and my brother who is exactly the same considers himself Irish.
I think the real problem is rapid changes in society, and most major cities around the western world are going though this and nobody likes change!

Don't say that in Scotland!

If it comes down to a fine point, I'd say someone who was born in England, speaks English and is totally integrated into the country (and I don't mean by choice of religion).

I always say Welsh when asked my ethnicity and nationality. That is my ancestry far back in my family tree, which we have traced back a long way. I was born and raised in Wales, speak it fluently and despite now living in England I am Welsh to the core.

OP how can you say that someone born in England is automatically English? That makes no sense. If a pregnant English woman travelled to France and went into labour, gave birth and came home few days later, would that make her child French?

My parents are English, but were working briefly in Wales when I was born. I’ve lived in England all my life. Would you say I was Welsh?

Yes but Scottish people as whole at some level feel it was the English choices - choices of the upper levels of society who were often born and raised in England first attempted a failed mission overseas and then handed Scotland to England becuase they were bankrupt

and then Scottish soldiers seem as first to send in anywhere dangerous

England mistreated Scotland for centuries - the border counties are still incredibly lightly populated as they were annihilated at time - could the rough wooing be classed as ethnic cleansing? and then took it over a Scotland that has consistently voted differently to England

I don’t claim that Scottish people wouldn’t have been involved in slavery any more than o don’t think any nationality can claim they wouldn’t have been involved in slavery at every opportunity.

but I think they are ashamed of what the English have done in their name or perhaps that’s just layered over the lack of love caused by the fact that their ancestors were victims of the English

it’s clear there is a stronger Scottish identity than English and that it’s key characteristics include “not English not British “

Why are you saying skin-tone 'milky white'? I wouldn't say coal black skin. Not acceptable and pretty racist.

The child might be eligible for dual nationality if the birth certificate is French.

I am askimg you whether your "anyone can identify who they think they are" applies everywhere or just england or uk.
It was simple yes or no question

People were asking this question 30 years ago. It was discussed on one of my courses at uni more than 30 years ago. I talked to my mum about it who was Liverpool Irish and didn’t really think of herself as English and she’s been dead for 30 years.

@AirportParking what do you mean by “milky white”? Would you also say “chocolate brown”? Don’t you think that’s a bit offensive?

@chirrupybird as I recall you have 6 weeks to register a birth, and in my scenario it was a brief visit.

French don't have jus soli. Most don't. I don't think anyone in Europe does. Happy to be corrected

@mids2019 so according to your definition I have one child who is Austrian and one who is German?
They both now live in the uk but spent most of their lives overseas. Wonder if they tick enough boxes to be considered English by Nigel et al?

People were more loyal to their county or area back in the day, my dad was proudly Yorkshire and my mother proudly Scottish although they lived in the South of England for many years.

People in the US often say they are Scottish or Irish without ever having set foot. So yes anyone can identify as anything anywhere. Whether other people agree with them is another matter.

I’m English. I was born and raised here to Irish parents.

I guess I could call myself Irish if I wanted to (and there’s certainly some ‘plastic’ going on with younger relatives), but I don’t as I don’t feel any affiliation to my Irish heritage at all.

All of them? A person has 4,096 10x great grandparents. The chances are, they’ll come from all over. I’m sure that nobody is ‘pure’ English. How many English ancestors do we need to be English?

I think most native inhabitants of our small islands are mongrals - viking, Saxon, German, french, celt.
We could probably all be 'sent home'.

Genetically I'm Irish but born in England to an Irish mother who left home to hide her pregnancy. I was adopted by an English couple.
I'm entitled to an Irish passport.
I always dither on forms because I'm not actually sure if I'm white British or white Irish. Until I was 30 I believed my heritage was northern Irish which meant British or not British wasn't an issue. Now I know my family is from RoI, my identity feels less clear and more of a choice.

Ahh casual racism right at the end of your sentence? Milky white? What the fuck is that supposed to mean?! How are you allowed to use language in a derogatory manner becase you’re pissed off with another posters answer?

If someone described you as chocolate brown would that be ok? No it would fucking not be ok as there is no need to add that extra description world as it’s passive aggressive, so wind you neck in!

Offensive to who?

I'm saying it as a person of mixed ethnicity, that is judged by their skin tone and has assumptions about their identity made based upon this.

My skin tone is not white enough to be considered English.

Ooh, this feels like a test!
Yes I think anyone anywhere can choose to be any nationality they want.
What do you reckon?