Excluding friend from holiday.

[Mickey540]

What would you do ? If anything. DS in a group of friends 7 to be precise. They want to go away for weekend overseas for one of their 18 bday. Except bday boy wants to ask 6 leaving one out. Apparently birthday boy doesn’t really talk to him however he is in the group, a friend of my DS and few of others. I have tried to talk to my DS about leaving one out how would he feel, and can a few say they won’t go without him. I feel the friend is being petty and spiteful but this is not a good look on my DS who has been friends for years as have few others. His mom is also a friend of mine albeit not really close I would feel awful if when she finds out.
i have spoken to my child. Would you just let them get on with it. Most are 17, 2 are 18

This happened to me, I was probably a bit older? Maybe 22? My “friend” who I started school with when I was 4 didn’t invite me with the group on holiday.
I was so upset, it hurt me deeply
The friendship was gone.

Would you have felt better if you had been invited out of obligation?

Well done to your son!

If birthday boy doesnt agree perhaps the group say no thanks to birthday holiday and organise a group holiday for everyone the following week. Sounds like birthday boy is using his 18th as reason to get his own way. Reality is it is a group holiday that happens to be on his birthday he should have no more say than anyone else on destination, activites when there etc.

If it was just a holiday, I'd agree that it's not on. However this is not just a holiday. It's a person wanting to go away with his mates to celebrate his 18th.

I would want the people I get on with there, regardless of who's paying. Why would he invite someone he doesn't get on with just because they're in the same friend group?

And why would your DS want to be there if he knows he's not wanted there? We should be able to spend time with who we want, not pressured into sound something we won't enjoy, especially on a special birthday.

Yes, it's upsetting to miss out and a bit of a shock but once you roceas it, it's just the reality. And yes, I'd speak to my son if it was his birthday and discuss why one person is not being included but ultimately, it's his choice and I don't think he's doing anything wrong.

I genuinely don't get what the issue is.

I see it as the group's summer holiday as well as the 18th. They wont be likely to afford an additional holiday so it is wrong for one person to dictate the guest list to exculde one member of an established group. Fine for a party birthday boy is funding or a dinner or night out as there will be plenty but not the one holiday (possibly first boys holiday for the group).

Also it is not OPs son who is left out, it is his friend.

Will be interesting to see how this goes. I wouldn’t have got involved tbh and I don’t think the bday boy should be forced to invite anyone he doesn’t want to.

I didn’t think I wasn’t “invited”
I’d assumed I was going because my “best friend” was going. But she told me she was going with her “other friends” and I wasn’t included. It didn’t occur to me that I wouldn’t be going

Oh, I missed that. I didn't realise it was their summer holiday. I don't think that was made very clear.

In that scenario, yes , I would feel the same as OP.

And the OP mentions twice that the potentially not-invited boy’s mother is a friend of hers, so I think at least some of this is the OP worrying about the optics of it reflecting badly on her, hence pressuring her son into taking a stand.

Well it was silly to assume that. Why would you do that? If someone doesn’t ask you directly then it’s same to assume you aren’t invited.

What if she had asked you because she thought she should (rather than wanting you there)?

People talk about being left out but the loss of trust when you find out you were only invited out of duty is a lot worse and makes you doubt everything.

I hope people remember that when they are pushing their children to be inclusive.

After this, how do any of them know that the others are sincere? Or that they are being invited somewhere because someone’s mummy told them to do it?

Exactly that. I can’t believe adults interfere in the friendships of their adult children like that.

1. they are 17 so not adults

2. they are wanted by 5/6 of the boys. Would you find it acceptable to be left out because one person in 6 isn’t fussed on you being there? That’s a bizarre take.

3. don’t project your own hang ups onto the situation

1. Two of them are 18 - therefore adults, the others are 17 so a few months away max from being adults. If they aren’t adults then they wouldn’t be able to drive and to go away without their mummies or daddies. They are certainly of an age where they should be able to include who they want without the parents weighing in.
2. Yes I would rather be left out because one person didn’t want me there than be invited even though I wasn’t welcome by everyone and someone had to be talked round - how mortifying to find that out.
3. Everyone else is projecting their hang ups about being left out of things.

Maybe it is my AuDHD but do people really have so little self esteem that they would prefer to be invited reluctantly? Wow.

But it seems that only 1 of them doesnt want the other lad there. Why should his wishes take priority? Because he is the ickle birthday boy?! Now who’s infantilising them!

Surely it’s normal in families to mull over life’s dilemmas like this one with each other ? Quite cruel to dub it as mummy interference.

You raised him well @Mickey540

A friend was so proud of her then 14 year old dd. When this was done to one of her friendship group she binned off the whole event the girl was excluded from and went shopping with the rejected girl. My friends dd may not be the most high achieving A star pupil everyone seems to want but wins out at character.

Because it’s not very nice to be invited when someone in the group is reluctant for you to attend. It makes you question what other things you have been invited to that people haven’t wanted you at.

The OP said she knows the boy’s mother so it sounds just like playground politics. One poster even said they wouldn’t allow this to happen.

Do you feel comfortable speaking to the other parent? It isn't for your son to resolve. I don't think it's an issue to share your concerns with the parent but all they can do is talk to their child and then it's still up to the individual to decide how they want to behave.

Could be more to it we don't know about. Like, a concern about that person's behaviour or something they experienced in the past.

1. you can drive at 17, still not an adult. At the time of the holiday 2 of the 7 will be 18, if they are in the same school year that means they could only have had birthdays in September so it is likely that the two that will be 18 still aren’t.

2. This stance means you probably shouldn’t ever go to events, because I guarantee that not every person at every event wants you there, it wouldn’t be natural.

3. people are empathising with the left out boy, not projecting. You are projecting.

And like I said in my original post, giving someone guidance on how to display empathy, even an adult, is what we should be doing in life. I would have thought as a neurodiverse person that you would recognise that empathy and consideration do not come naturally to all, and that it is often a learned trait

1 Then we need to campaign to increase the driving age as children shouldn’t be driving

2 This isn’t a massive event like a wedding where many people may know but not particularly like each other. it’s a small group of people. If they have had to have side chats to convince one of them that one should be invited, then that isn’t fair on either the birthday boy or the lad who isn’t invited. I hope he doesn’t find out.

3 I am empathising from the view of someone who was once invited to something in a similar situation. I was a child (about 8/9) and the parent of the person who invited me was one of the ‘inclusive’ ones. I worked it out and felt awful and it did break my already fragile trust in people. So I don’t accept invitations 99.9% of the time because I don’t want to be somewhere I’m actively not welcome.

Your comment about learning empathy etc was unnecessary. What about empathy for someone who is being included because of someone applying pressure within the group?

🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈 What age do your children have to be before you stop liaising with their friends’ parents to sort out their friendships?

In any case the birthday boy has been pushed into agreeing to the invitation.

You are very over-invested in this, especially if you are willing to argue that 17 year olds are adults because they can drive and that we should campaign to stop them if they aren’t 🫣

My points remain, and you don’t have to agree, just because some 8 year olds didn’t like you, doesn’t mean that these 17 year olds are unable to act maturely enough that they can have a holiday together. They aren’t inviting him just because he is part of their class, they are inviting him because everyone likes him and he is part of their friendship group. Haven’t you ever had a friendship group where 2 of the people don’t particularly click? Would you choose between them and tell one they can’t hang out with you? Don’t be silly.

The point about helping young people understand and show empathy is very valid, it speaks to comments made about how parents shouldn’t be involved in this because they are old enough to decide for themselves.

I think I’ll leave it here because it doesn’t feel like you have a willingness to understand other points of view or the nuance of this situation, you just want to project based on your experience as a small child. Have a nice day though

It was clear my comment about 17 yos was sarcastic. If you are still having to teach your nearly adult children about empathy then it’s probably a bit late.

Yes I have had a friendship group where there were two people that didn’t click. One left the group.

My point about being a small child was that I learnt very early on that I wasn’t some sad sack who had to rely on being invited in the name of inclusion.

I will leave it here too - I only replied because you clearly misunderstood my post and also you did ask a question.

Maybe it is my AuDHD but do people really have so little self esteem that they would prefer to be invited reluctantly? Wow.

I haven't seen anyone advocate kidnapping the friend who was initially left out and forcing him to go on the trip. If invited, he'll still have the opportunity to decline.

A lot depends on how frequently these teens take international trips on their own. If they are borrowing their parents' private planes and jetting off every school holiday Chuck Bass-style then the exact composition of the group for this one trip may be trivial and it might be natural for Birthday Boy to BOTH set the specific guest list and pay for everyone as a "birthday celebration". But from the way the OP has framed the dilemma I'm guessing it's probably the first trip abroad without an adult for most of them, and they'll have to budget/save for it and set aside time, meaning that they go on THIS holiday rather than another one. In that case then they - like "adults" - will naturally give thought to whether this is the holiday they want, and will all want to have input into shaping it.

In that case, it's not just a birthday celebration, although a birthday celebration occurs during it. BB wanting to call all the shots including setting the guest list is a huge overstep. The natural thing here isn't going straight to saying "I won't go if Will's not invited", but rather revising the parameters of the trip by mutual consensus. By the time OP's son spoke up, 3 others in the group of six already had, so clearly BB's preferences don't reflect those of the group. I think the lesson to be learned here for the teens is not to be afraid to speak up right away if someone has unilaterally made a decision for the group that doesn't reflect consensus. That's actually exactly what a competent, ethical "adult" would typically do.