Dd can't get promoted. Govt job.

[Sadwork]

Not for Facebook use.

Dd is late 20s. She's been working in a govt department for a few years. Has moved up slightly.

She's applied for lots of promotions and had a few interviews. No joy. It's really getting her down. She wants to move from the area she's in but can't afford it. She doesn't live with her dp.
Had anyone experienced this in gov jobs? Does your face have to fit?
She won't want to move back home and tbh commute would be difficult.

Not government but public sector and there is definitely a style to our kind of interviews.

What feedback is she getting?

Has she asked for feedback as to why she hasn’t got the roles
areas she needs to develop etc

I'll ask her that. Thanks.

If she is interviewing under success profiles she needs to read up on the process. Read up on the post she is applying for. Use the STAR technique for the behaviour questions. The interviewers are interested what she did ,not the team, and the examples need to show the potential to work at the higher grade. For the strength questions no one word answers . Expand a bit and throughout the interview show some enthusiasm. While AI can be used to write your examples it’s strictly forbidden in an interview and can lead to disqualification. If unsuccessful ask for feedback and work on it .

She's not ticking the right boxes in interviews and needs to ask for feedback. Interesting that you assume it's down to an unfair process rather than your daughter's performance.

One of the main reasons I see internal candidates fail is they don't bring forward their experience fully. They think the interviewer knows their current role so will assume they know all about x, y, z. Interviewers can't assume - they can only evaluate what the candidate actually says.

In my experience there is often someone they have lined up already for most government jobs. They can’t just give people the jobs because they have to follow a certain process, so they find other ways of swaying things in that person’s favour (tailoring interview questions, probing more to get them extra interview points). My advice would be to make sure she makes herself known to the people in the areas that she’s interested in working in and hopefully if she makes a good impression, she’ll be one of the ones that gets lined up. As a minimum she should always arrange to meet with the manager / team lead of the department / team she’s interviewing for ahead of time to make herself known.

That it totally not my experience.

Do you have to have a good reputation? Yes, I'd say you do if she is applying to connected departments where her work is known.

What does her line manager say about her lack of progress?

Yes, it's getting the knack of hitting the right markers in her answers. Keep the detail on what the task was short and focus on what her actions were, why they made a difference, what she brought to the work. A reflection on what she would have changed and why can be a good thing to include. Always say I, never we. Get feedback after every interview, especially if its internal as you can really ask questions to help with the next interview. Practice interviews also can help so she should be asking a line manager to help with finding someone to arrange those. What grade is she going for?

The job market internally in CS is rubbish at the moment, hundreds of people applying for jobs. Don't take it personally, look for networks e.g gender or social mobility who offer workshops or career insight sessions. Build up skills outside e.g. school governor or trustee. It's not a conspiracy it's just rubbish

Absolutely not for the majority of government jobs. In fact, name blind recruitment and the very set process with no wiggle room has often seen people who seemed a shoe in unsuccessful.

OP it really depends on the department, the profession etc; but honestly it is wildly competitive at the moment. She should see if her line manager/mentor is happy to give some advice.

That's what I've said. She's talking about looking outside of govt. I think she'll be lucky to find anything as safe.

Civil Service is huge and every department is different, from my experience. So any advice will depend on her current role and the department she’s in.

Thanks I don't want to be too outing. I agree with you though.

Is she in the civil service? I've heard it can take people applying for close to 100 promotions before they land one when trying to move up a grade, it’s really competitive.
That said, a lot of people find the trade-off worth it: better job security, good holiday and mat leave etc and more flexible working than you'd typically get elsewhere, even if the salary is on the lower side. It really depends on what she's prioritising. If climbing the ranks quickly and higher pay matter more to her right now, a stint in the private sector could be worth considering.
Good luck to her!

In my department you can interview successfully but still not get a role as there may not be a vacancy where you want which seems weird way of doing things

Assuming you mean civil service by govt i agree with the pp who said the interviews all follow a format, you just have to learn it. There was always loads of practice materials when i worked for the cs and even an opportunity to do practice interviews. All that should be available to her on the internal intranet. Then just practice- use ai to ask questions.

Ive been on interview panels and agree with the poster who said lots of internal candidates forget to state the obvious because they know the panel know them or at least their job role. You need to pretend they are completely new to it and you need to explain everything.

If no luck would she try a sideways step to local government or an arms length body? A surprising amount of organisations not actually in the civil service still use civil service pensions and have the same sort of benefits, if she doesnt want to go to the private sector. Same with a secondment etc.

Public sector interviews are generally fairer than private sector interviews my experience as a manager- we have a scoring matrix and we follow it exactly the same for everyone.

Why do you think her face not fitting might be the problem?

If she is getting through to interview stages she is doing something right.
Her feedback will matter. It might be she isn’t doing anything wrong but sometimes someone else is stronger on the day. It happens.

Thank you I'll mention this. I'll tell her I've asked mn 🙂

Tell her to go on TheCivilService Reddit, bit of a misogynistic cesspit but she’ll see lots of people in the same position and there’s a fair bit of advice on there. Yes lots of people are finding the some.

Is she a generalist or does she have a specialism?

I said this a while ago…but will say it again.

I just closed a campaign for a HEO, SEO and G7 (two ‘private office’ role, one policy). I had over 250 applications across the three roles. Two were only advertised to exciting civil servants and one only within my department.

Some of those applications came from former lawyers, brokers and bankers. That’s how crap the jobs market it. Let’s be honest, what sort of former Magic Circle lawyer wants to be a G7 Chief of Staff to me? A desperate one who has a mortgage to pay.

Jobs market is crap.

Several ‘main departments have recruitment freezes on for externals and promotion freezes and mass redundancies (voluntary so far but up to 50% of the workforce) .That makes jobs advertised XWH for other departments even more appealing as there’s less jobs going around. The sorts of staff I know getting promotions are the ones who are going G7 to G6 but could easily do an SCS role.

A lateral move might be a good idea, to give her more experience.

Is she gearing her applications to each job? It's always obvious when someone is just applying for promotion and not the role. Just because she wants promotion doesn't always mean she's ready for that job either. What grade is she applying for?

How do you define an ‘exciting’ civil servant?

It is very competitive atm, and I am sorry but 20s is young. I have been stuck at a grade I am overqualified for 3 years. I have 3 degrees and PhD and do work that is way above my grade for free. I am in my 30s and promotions go to Fast Streamers which can make it feel late for someone in their late 20s but really isn’t. What grade is she at? Interviews in gov are very specific, marking has changed and the CO announced changes to the success profiles from 2027 so the process will change