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Esther Rantzen "too frail" to travel to Switzerland (Dignitas)

298 replies

ItWasnaMeGuv · 11/09/2026 07:32

Hopefully a family member of friend will take her and she can get her wish.

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9
5MinuteArgument · 11/09/2026 11:48

38thparallel · 11/09/2026 11:31

@Mauvish1
Anybody who takes her there will be facing potential criminal charges when they return to the UK, as assisting in assisted suicide is legal here.

I know that is true in theory, but has anyone who has accompanied a friend or relation to dignitas ever been charged?

No as far as I'm aware, they haven't.

Wineryvinery · 11/09/2026 11:49

5MinuteArgument · 11/09/2026 11:42

I support AD as a choice, not because I've seen people die a horrible death but because I used tovwork in 'care' homes and seen how awful some of them are, especially at the lower end of the market.

The thought of dying doesn't bother me that much. But the thought of ending up in a lower cost 'care' home is really frightening.

How many people are passing on their estate to their kids ahead of needing care, confident that social services will pay for a lovely care home because they know someone who got into a good one!

Wineryvinery · 11/09/2026 11:52

5MinuteArgument · 11/09/2026 11:36

The present system is open to abuse. Thousands of old people, who were once happy and useful, are languishing in 'care' homes, often for years, having lost capacity, unable to feed, wash or toilet themselves, with bedsores, serious medical conditions and possibly being bullied and mistreated or neglected by staff, especially in the lower cost 'care' homes.

If people want that for themselves, that's great. It's not something I want for myself. So I'm a supporter of Dignity In Dying who are trying to get the legislation changed so people can have a CHOICE. At the moment only the owners of the 'care' homes are benefitting.

The biggest abuse is keeping people alive when they want to die and they are in terrible pain and have had enough of the indignity of having lost the ability to control every aspect of their lives.

HobnobsChoice · 11/09/2026 11:56

Those referring to people in care homes with dementia etc. The bill would not allow for AS for them. It would be for those with a terminal diagnosis with a life expectancy of six months or less. You'd have to be mentally competent to agree to it so having multiple strokes or dementia or poor quality of life as a result of ageing would not be able to use AS under the proposals as they currently stand. Although with the creep of MAID in Canada this may happen here too if assisted suicide is passed. Currently there's no additional funding for end of life hospice care and I don't think the Bill should pass without there also being fully funded alternatives to AS.

What we should all do though and it doesn't require an Act of Parliament is discuss with our relatives what our wishes would be if we lack capacity or if we have a catastrophic medical event. Things like Do not Resuscitate or no antibiotics for chest infections. It's called Advanced Care Planning and not enough people do it which is why you then get people with a dozen co-morbidities who go into cardiac arrest, are resuscitated and now have broken ribs, potential brain damage and even worse quality of life. Make your wishes known, have that conversation. Look at organisations like Dying Matters for guidance on how to initiate these conversations. Don't wait until it's too late or shy away from them.

I do agree with the option to end one's life but the current Bill is not the way to do it. I find the focus on Esther Rantzen very unhelpful in discussing the much wider social implications and lack of safeguarding in the proposal as it stands. Many organisations including doctors groups and disability groups also have raised these concerns but no amendments have been made

5MinuteArgument · 11/09/2026 11:57

Wineryvinery · 11/09/2026 11:52

The biggest abuse is keeping people alive when they want to die and they are in terrible pain and have had enough of the indignity of having lost the ability to control every aspect of their lives.

Yes, I agree. That's why I support AD and I would like to see it in the UK instead of people having to travel to Switzerland which makes it very difficult.

Thegirlwhowent · 11/09/2026 12:06

ktopfwcv · 11/09/2026 07:36

No family member or friend can make her well enough to travel there.

She said her life wasn't limited enough that she was ready to go but now she is she's not well enough. I would have thought she would have thought this detail through.

I imagine most people would face the same dilemma. You wait until you're so poorly you decide to go, but by then you're too poorly to make the journey. It must be very difficult.

FinallyHere · 11/09/2026 12:06

hobbledyhoy · 11/09/2026 09:17

Poor woman. I think that anyone who opposes this bill would change their mind if they had to watch a loved one die in agony and without dignity. It is most horrifying to watch and I hope I and my family are spared that when my time comes.

This.

Lengokengo · 11/09/2026 12:07

i live in NL, and next week is the anniversary of a dear friend who had a painful and life limiting condition, then was diagnosed with cancer. She took the difficult decision to decide to end her life, in conjunction with her doctors/ health service here ( which is legal.)

she chose to die, and chose the date, and was with loved ones to the end. I admire her decision, and glad that she had the choice and could say all her goodbyes, plan her own funeral, and even the final WhatsApp message to be sent after she had gone. That’s how it should be.

Thegirlwhowent · 11/09/2026 12:10

dustabsorber · 11/09/2026 10:11

I feel for people in Esthers situation, but there are too many OAP haters around, who think we cost too much and want us out of the way to reduce the welfare bill, so I oppose assist'd suicide.

I haven't met any of these OAP haters. I'm an OAP myself and I hope that we get the law changed in this country. I don't want to be suffering and in pain, and kept alive when there's no hope. Why can't be better given the choice about when to go?

5MinuteArgument · 11/09/2026 12:15

HobnobsChoice · 11/09/2026 11:56

Those referring to people in care homes with dementia etc. The bill would not allow for AS for them. It would be for those with a terminal diagnosis with a life expectancy of six months or less. You'd have to be mentally competent to agree to it so having multiple strokes or dementia or poor quality of life as a result of ageing would not be able to use AS under the proposals as they currently stand. Although with the creep of MAID in Canada this may happen here too if assisted suicide is passed. Currently there's no additional funding for end of life hospice care and I don't think the Bill should pass without there also being fully funded alternatives to AS.

What we should all do though and it doesn't require an Act of Parliament is discuss with our relatives what our wishes would be if we lack capacity or if we have a catastrophic medical event. Things like Do not Resuscitate or no antibiotics for chest infections. It's called Advanced Care Planning and not enough people do it which is why you then get people with a dozen co-morbidities who go into cardiac arrest, are resuscitated and now have broken ribs, potential brain damage and even worse quality of life. Make your wishes known, have that conversation. Look at organisations like Dying Matters for guidance on how to initiate these conversations. Don't wait until it's too late or shy away from them.

I do agree with the option to end one's life but the current Bill is not the way to do it. I find the focus on Esther Rantzen very unhelpful in discussing the much wider social implications and lack of safeguarding in the proposal as it stands. Many organisations including doctors groups and disability groups also have raised these concerns but no amendments have been made

Yes, I'm aware that the current bill only applies to people with a 6 month prognosis. But as you say, in other countries, the eligibility for AD has expanded over time.

However, I think it's very unlikely that AD will become law in the UK as there are too many vested interests. The care sector is a powerful lobby and they are making a lot of money.

I agree with you that people should make an advanced planning decision to say they don't want to be kept alive when quality of life has gone.

5MinuteArgument · 11/09/2026 12:19

Lengokengo · 11/09/2026 12:07

i live in NL, and next week is the anniversary of a dear friend who had a painful and life limiting condition, then was diagnosed with cancer. She took the difficult decision to decide to end her life, in conjunction with her doctors/ health service here ( which is legal.)

she chose to die, and chose the date, and was with loved ones to the end. I admire her decision, and glad that she had the choice and could say all her goodbyes, plan her own funeral, and even the final WhatsApp message to be sent after she had gone. That’s how it should be.

Exactly. The Netherlands is generally a sensible country where the government takes heed of the wishes of its people, rather than caving in to powerful lobby groups and the interests of big business.

Thunderdcc · 11/09/2026 12:22

In the Netherlands I think they have an expression that it is better to go at 11.55pm than wait until 5 minutes past midnight - and I think for Esther Rantzen it is now past midnight. But knowing when it is 11.55 must be almost impossible.

Cotopaxi · 11/09/2026 12:36

I wish there had been a choice for my mum. She had a horribly prolonged and agonising wait for her death from bowel cancer. Unimaginable suffering that went on for so long, and nothing could be done. Morphine didn't touch it. I was with her when she died. It was prolonged and gruesome. Her friends asked 'did she slip away peacefully' and I had to lie to them.

It is against the law to cause unnecessary suffering to an animal. The right and only thing to do is to show compassion and help to end their suffering. Why can't we do the same for people?

Rubymoney · 11/09/2026 12:49

5MinuteArgument · 11/09/2026 11:16

Agree 100% and your relative would no way have wanted to be in that situation for possibly years. Nobody would want it for themselves or a loved one.

The assisted dying bill was talked out by the House of Lords last time. The only people who benefit from the current situation are the owners of care homes who are making a lot of money. I wonder if members of the HoL have shares in some of the big companies who run this racket.

Not everyone in a care home is about to die or has dementia etc!
But I don’t believe getting an injection in Switzerland is a dignified death! I just don’t think death is dignified. Unless you die in your sleep!

Insidelaurashead · 11/09/2026 12:51

My Grandma is 86 and has terminal cancer. It is in a place where it is causing her constant pain, she is unable to use the toilet as normal. She is fed up of being here. She is not going to get any better, they cannot operate because she has heart failure. She would 100% go down the assisted dying route if she was able to, and why should she have to suffer? She keeps saying 'you wouldn't treat a dog like this' and she's so right.

TotaleclipseinFrance · 11/09/2026 12:52

HobnobsChoice · 11/09/2026 11:56

Those referring to people in care homes with dementia etc. The bill would not allow for AS for them. It would be for those with a terminal diagnosis with a life expectancy of six months or less. You'd have to be mentally competent to agree to it so having multiple strokes or dementia or poor quality of life as a result of ageing would not be able to use AS under the proposals as they currently stand. Although with the creep of MAID in Canada this may happen here too if assisted suicide is passed. Currently there's no additional funding for end of life hospice care and I don't think the Bill should pass without there also being fully funded alternatives to AS.

What we should all do though and it doesn't require an Act of Parliament is discuss with our relatives what our wishes would be if we lack capacity or if we have a catastrophic medical event. Things like Do not Resuscitate or no antibiotics for chest infections. It's called Advanced Care Planning and not enough people do it which is why you then get people with a dozen co-morbidities who go into cardiac arrest, are resuscitated and now have broken ribs, potential brain damage and even worse quality of life. Make your wishes known, have that conversation. Look at organisations like Dying Matters for guidance on how to initiate these conversations. Don't wait until it's too late or shy away from them.

I do agree with the option to end one's life but the current Bill is not the way to do it. I find the focus on Esther Rantzen very unhelpful in discussing the much wider social implications and lack of safeguarding in the proposal as it stands. Many organisations including doctors groups and disability groups also have raised these concerns but no amendments have been made

You don't have to be a complete cynic to realise that if it passes today- which it probably will-that this will be extended to more people than those with 6 months to live.

(If it were only for such individuals, and would forever be, I'd be for it.)

It's obvious. This is why I'm opposed to it

If it's passed today, that's it: game over. I would love to be corrected on this, BTW.

TotaleclipseinFrance · 11/09/2026 12:58

hobbledyhoy · 11/09/2026 09:17

Poor woman. I think that anyone who opposes this bill would change their mind if they had to watch a loved one die in agony and without dignity. It is most horrifying to watch and I hope I and my family are spared that when my time comes.

You think incorrectly.
Not everybody who's watched a loved one die in these circumstances wants assisted dying.

It's the thin end of the wedge.
You'd have to have massive trust in the government to think it won't be extended to other people.
I don't and if passed it will be.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

5MinuteArgument · 11/09/2026 13:00

TotaleclipseinFrance · 11/09/2026 12:52

You don't have to be a complete cynic to realise that if it passes today- which it probably will-that this will be extended to more people than those with 6 months to live.

(If it were only for such individuals, and would forever be, I'd be for it.)

It's obvious. This is why I'm opposed to it

If it's passed today, that's it: game over. I would love to be corrected on this, BTW.

If it passes the Commons today, the House of Lords will probably block it like they did last time.

TotaleclipseinFrance · 11/09/2026 13:11

5MinuteArgument · 11/09/2026 13:00

If it passes the Commons today, the House of Lords will probably block it like they did last time.

Not sure they can this time. Love to be corrected, BTW.

SheilaFentiman · 11/09/2026 13:25

TotaleclipseinFrance · 11/09/2026 13:11

Not sure they can this time. Love to be corrected, BTW.

I believe they can send it back 3 times? It’s a private members bill so wasn’t in the manifesto,

shadowsinthegroceryline · 11/09/2026 13:53

hobbledyhoy · 11/09/2026 09:17

Poor woman. I think that anyone who opposes this bill would change their mind if they had to watch a loved one die in agony and without dignity. It is most horrifying to watch and I hope I and my family are spared that when my time comes.

I see this argument all the time and I object to such blanket assertions being made on my behalf and the behalves of everyone else who has witnessed a loved one die in such distressing circumstances. You do not speak for me. It is emotionally manipulative and not representative of how all of us in that situation feel by any means.
I witnessed both my parents die from long and painful illnesses. I wish they had both had access to good quality palliative care but I do not wish they had had the option to end their own lives, or rather, give the state permission to murder them. Countries like Canada, which brought in a similar assisted dying law some years ago, are good illustrations of the slippery slope argument, where what started as a way of shortening the suffering of those who were terminally ill became extended to those who were suffering in such a way as made their life 'not worth living'. This is a highly subjective definition and has been used to justify the 'euthanasia' of non-terminally ill disabled people. As someone who was born with a disability which I have heard other people say they could not live with, but has led a full, productive and joyful life anyway, I am very worried about the effect introducing assisted dying laws, no matter how well-intentioned, will eventually have on the lives of the sick and disabled.
It would be far easier, and cheaper, for the state to 'end the suffering' of disabled and sick people rather than, you know, provide the support which can and does make our lives better. It is, therefore, depressingly easy to envisage a future in which, if the law is changed, the 'right to die' will come to encompass those who are not terminally ill and where it could come to be seen as a compassionate, and conveniently cost-effective way, of 'helping' disabled people, both by government and, I am afraid, by the occasional family.
My dad was also physically disabled all his life, but he was staunchly opposed to assisted dying for the reasons I outlined above, his view did not waver even in his final days of suffering.
Rather than implementing this divisive bill, surely it would be better to vastly improve the standard of end-of-life care in this country so that people's final days could be lived with less suffering and more dignity and comfort. However, a bit like properly supporting disabled people, this would cost money so, sadly, I can't see it happening any time soon.

CuteOrangeElephant · 11/09/2026 13:59

You know it is totally possible to have good palliative care and assisted dying.

Happysnappydays · 11/09/2026 14:02

It is: but I would think it vanishingly unlikely that sufficient funds would be allocated to both.

user1471538283 · 11/09/2026 14:03

I think there's a tipping point. My DF believed in the right but he also wanted to and did enjoy his life until he was so sick he could barely move.

He believed as do I that it's inhumane and as deaths go his was one of the better ones.

5MinuteArgument · 11/09/2026 14:11

CuteOrangeElephant · 11/09/2026 13:59

You know it is totally possible to have good palliative care and assisted dying.

Exactly. Agree 100% and the key word is CHOICE.

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