To think Andy Burnham needs to start to show us he can talk about more than "the north" and "buses"

[joeymaynardssandwiches]

I want to get behind Andy Burnham, I feel he's got the potential to be a great counterpoint to the rise of reform. And I do know it's "silly season" in politics and with parliament closed I guess there's a limit on what initiatives can be announced

But so far it feels like he hasn't broken away from being a northern caricature who just bangs on about buses.

I'm a "northerner" (who always thought of Manchester as the part of Midlands ) but I can only do my job in the south and I can assure Andy there are big pockets of deprivation in the south too.

And I am all for public transport, and investment in it. But it just feels like a real "low hanging fruit" approach for his first few weeks and I want to hear him talk about thornier and less uncontroversial issues.

And admittedly I haven't been reading every news story in depth as I have been busy with the kids so he may have discussed other things. But that is my overriding impression at the moment and it feels a bit frustrating

His parent’s jobs just smack of generational employment opportunities to me. My mum was a secretary and my dad a salesman….. and? What is that telling anyone? My kid’s parents are a project manager and a educational support worker …. and? That also tells you not much. My partners parents were a SAHM and a mechanic…. fascinating. Going bank in time my great great grandfather was a lamp lighter. My grand father was in the navy. My grandmother was a civil servant. Somewhere way back in the past there was probably an Anglo Saxon who toiled the land but it’s still telling us not very much.

Whst I think you’re angling at is that he is working class because his father was a blue collar worker. He was an engineer. Nowadays that’s a white collar job and I’m sure if he’d been born in this post modern era he’d have had himself a lovely white collar job just like his son.

Working class doesn’t even exist anymore. They were the factory workers and all the factories closed down.

No it wasn’t. You just made it up. I merely pointed out that being a female doesn’t automatically mean being a good PM. Liz Truss proved that. And she could have been a Labour PM as she used to be a leftie in her youth😱

Sure. You used Truss as an excuse and rowed back.

And you’re still stuck with only white males as leaders.

Was Truss even given enough time to do anything? She came in, terrified the stock market and was ousted. Who knows if things would have settled down.

I really didn’t. You are either making it up or lack comprehension skills.
You were bigging up the Conservatives “ Look at as, we are so progressive with female prime ministers” So I simply pointed out that the last one was shite despite being a woman.

You’re bigging up Labour for having another white male, well done.

At least you’ve rowed back on Truss is all women in politics.

The Tory party have certainly been much more diverse when it’s come to their leaders, but the difference is that most of the party are well educated from excellent schools and universities and that is very much frowned upon.

🤣🤣🤣She cut the taxes while increasing benefit payouts. What could possibly go wrong with that?
Do you remember the energy subsidies? She was dishing out a subsidy for each property instead of a person/household. So those with multiple properties, mainly the rich, were raking in multiple subsidies.
My kids still regret not exchanging their Canadian dollars into pounds. It was almost 1 to 1. It has never happened before or after.

“He’s still male and pale.”
You are the one who is sexist. And racist.
So he cannot be a good PM because he is not a woman or a person of colour.

By you if your gripes about Burnham's university are anything to go by.

I see. So Labour should only have white males as leaders and if anyone asks why it’s this

Going well then

Nope. You are just clutching at straws. You have been unable to provide any details of Conservative policy proposals, which would be better than what Labour is doing, so now you are banging on about the sex and the race.
”We are sooo much better. Look at all the female leaders!”
You have conveniently forgotten that the current leader wants to promote laws, which would deprive women of many rights.

Tory Party members aren’t trying to play the working class card. Wasn’t there another Labour MP on the front bench recently trying to pretend she had a rags to riches story which was also not particularly accurate.

But Burnham comes from working class. They don’t

You’re banging on about Burnham’s background. It’s just not that great is it? It’s still the same as all the other male Labour leaders.

You’re banging that drum again.

Ive now bothered to look and whilst there hasn’t been a manifesto since the last GE, they are developing a new policy programme.

https://www.conservatives.com/our-plan-for-britain

What class are the generations of plumbers, carpenters, bricklayers then?

He really doesn’t. He has two parents with decent jobs for the era he was raised in and a world class education. The personification of privilege.

All of those professions are high earning and highly skilled. Have you tried to employ a plumber or a carpenter lately? They outstrip a standard middle class teacher wage by a country mile! You’d be better off saying cleaner, factory worker. Although cleaners earn a fortune!!!!

Seen that. Lots of slogans or “sound bites” as another poster put it. Nothing concrete about how they are going to achieve that.

Id like more women in politics and reaching the higher levels of politics myself. I don't think focusing excessively on targets/obsessing over the characteristics of individuals helps though because I suspect the barriers to more women etc entering the higher levels of politics are complicated and better fixed with structural changes than just electing a woman just because. Personally I think Angela Raynor would make a great PM but let's face it her becoming PM would generate even more teeth gnashing than a Northern man becoming PM. Probably including from yourself. But also, she didn't actually put herself forward as a candidate for Labour leader so it's not a suprise she wasn't chosen.

"Equality of opportunity not equality of outcome" remember that? I don't think we have either right now but it's improving the equality of opportunity that should be the focus.

The idea of everyone on "the left**" being obsessed with minority quotas, equality of outcome, hating white men etc came from the right wing tabloids etc. To then turn that round and act as if Labour of being hypocritical for not meeting a stereotype invented by their detractors is not a reasonable criticism.

**Broad, wide ranging and ever shifting category

I am good mates with a window cleaner and he’s earning a whack. I guess he’s also working class whilst living in a four bed detached in the three countries and driving around in a Range Rover 🤣
I haven’t yet asked him what he’s parents did for a living as that’s obviously the determiner. I’ll do that tomorrow 👍

The two plumbers I know are doing well! They haven’t any shortage of work and have lovely lives.
they work really hard for it, but it’s a good living.

I’ll pass your criticisms on. She’ll be devastated you didn’t think much of it.