To think Andy Burnham needs to start to show us he can talk about more than "the north" and "buses"

[joeymaynardssandwiches]

I want to get behind Andy Burnham, I feel he's got the potential to be a great counterpoint to the rise of reform. And I do know it's "silly season" in politics and with parliament closed I guess there's a limit on what initiatives can be announced

But so far it feels like he hasn't broken away from being a northern caricature who just bangs on about buses.

I'm a "northerner" (who always thought of Manchester as the part of Midlands ) but I can only do my job in the south and I can assure Andy there are big pockets of deprivation in the south too.

And I am all for public transport, and investment in it. But it just feels like a real "low hanging fruit" approach for his first few weeks and I want to hear him talk about thornier and less uncontroversial issues.

And admittedly I haven't been reading every news story in depth as I have been busy with the kids so he may have discussed other things. But that is my overriding impression at the moment and it feels a bit frustrating

Yes I do know.
Have a look, you might learn something.

The Tories have produced some nice soundbites with mostly very little detail on how. Echoes of Reform:

Kemi Badenoch has announced our Borders Plan, the toughest reforms Britain has ever seen to border laws and operations.

A total ban on asylum claims for new illegal entrants.
‍
Take Britain out of the ECHR, ECAT and repeal the Human Rights Act.

Establish the Removals Force to remove 150,000 illegal immigrants a year.
‍
Deport all new illegal arrivals within a week, and all foreign criminals.

End the Immigration Tribunal, Judicial Review and legal aid for immigration cases.
‍
Establish returns agreements with other countries backed by visa sanctions.

Support our allies abroad to prevent illegal entry to Europe.

True. Some of these posts are 2024 mode. The demands for help finding stuff included

I think this thread has changed my mind. I feel newly positive and enthusiastic about Mr Burnham. I think he might just have a bunch of original, liberterian views that I haven’t heard before. I’m off to do some research on him and see what credentials he has for this very important position and his lifelong pension thereafter.

So you don’t know either. What is it with right wingers on MN? Whenever you are asked to provide any evidence of your claims, the only answer is “google it”.
Nobody is ever giving any answers. Probably because they don’t exist.
Hopefully ( for Labour's sake ) you are all planning on canvassing for Torries in the next election. Potential voter: What are your policies on X? You: Google it.

Your preference for or against common parlance phrases is your own concerne, not anybody else’s. I don’t like the name Patrice, but so what.

What is it with Labour acolytes that they can’t find simple stuff?

How is it so hard?

Well, personally I would rather we opened up legitimate routes to claim asylum. Those existed previously but were bit by bit shut down so now the only way to claim asylum is essentially to do a sort of deadly assault course. People previously talked about how well Vietnamese refugees were accepted and integrated but they didn't need to get into the country and then apply for asylum. They could do it before getting here and either were accepted or rejected. The Ukraine scheme also allowed families to apply from France etc and then come here by regular means but that's a rarity. Essentially we have created a system that profits criminal gangs and private security companies only.

If that were too controversial I am not against tackling the problem in France but would rather the focus of operations was the actual individuals and groups (often criminal and violence) running the smuggling schemes themselves rather than the regular people caught up. I don't want the sort of chaotic shows of force that can lead to kids, vulnerable adults being trampled or drowned as everyone charges about in the shallow water of the French coast. However, honestly I'm fine with the French police slashing the boats so they can't be used or moving people of the beaches before they get on the boats. But really without actually disrupting the operations of the gangs and arresting people it's going to be endless games of cat and mouse on the beaches that won't amount to much. If they do manage to successfully disrupt the gangs operations it will take a long period of sustained effort and international cooperation because it's hard. But the people smuggling gangs and the dinghy's was a problem very much caused by decades of UK public policy.

That was long but I hope it answers your question and kills any remaining strawmen.

Can’t find something which doesn’t exist. No concretes, empty words only.

Time for a pamphlet about the UK’s position on Witches.

or perhaps an easy to read leaflet explaining, overall, the most basic tenets of Civilised Society.

It’s not just U.K. policy, there are people trying to cross the Med, and many die doing that too.

Yes you’ll get clashes on French beaches, which may escalate. If that’s what Labour posters prefer then up to them.

I have no idea why the French are happy to do our border control for us but perhaps they’ll vote for something else next year anyway.

I think we are all agreed, as Andy has said, that we can’t go assuming that any male with his feet on UK terraferma has any idea that he shouldn’t poke his sausage into a child or woman (or man) particularly if they are asleep. That’s fair enough and pretty reasonable. I support that.

I agree with Andy that we should support the French and pay them UK tax payer money to help us try and deal with small boat crossings. I also agree with Andy that it is not their job to police their beaches and put their police at risk, so if they wouldn’t mind occasionally stopping the odd inflatable but the rest of the time just stand about watching the people smugglers do their people smuggling then we’d all be awfully grateful.

What claims? We didn't mention Kemi, you did.

I know you desperately want to blame her for Labour paying French police to tear gas people, but the cons are not in government. Sorry.

😂😂

Thats a good summary of where we are.

I can tell from your language you genuinely care deeply about the issue.

.

Huh?

I care very much. I think all men should keep their sausages to themselves unless invited. If a pamphlet is required to reinforce this, so be it.

I notice Brutish transport police are currently looking for a male who is sexually assaulting women on trains. Hopefully if and when he is apprehended someone will put the brochure in his hand.

Assuming you don’t mean me, I agree with you!

But he can't......it would be an incredibly short statement!!

He has. He has supported Ukraine and criticised Putin. I didn't like him at first but well he's not too bad at all.

But this is a discussion forum, and the discussion is about whether Andy Burnham talks too much about the North. My opinion that calling a politician “a professional northerner” is a patronising, classist attack line with no real substance, is as relevant to that discussion as your calling Andy Burnham a professional Northerner is.

Equally, if this discussion was on baby names, and the discussion was about boys names beginning with P, your dislike of the name would be totally relevant.

None of the opinions any of us are sharing on here are really anyone’s concern but our own, but nonetheless Mumsnet wouldn’t exist if we didn’t share them 🤷‍♀️

I don’t want to derail the discussion by continuing to bicker over it, and I’m really sorry if you took offence to my quote replying to express my disagreement with you, but I genuinely do think that’s what discussion forums are for.

I'm giving Andy Burnham a year before I judge. I am sceptical, but open-minded. He's made a trip to Cornwall and avoided the ice cream shot, and there are some indications that he's been briefed on rural deprivation. We're fairly close to Plymouth, and there are signs that the local MPs and the City Council are working together constructively. I've just read that a tungsten mine about 20 miles away is receiving £70m to re-open, and only a churl would wish that venture to fail.

When I see the back-benchers being constructive about taxation, energy policy, asylum rules and controlling benefit entitlements, then I will feel that they really are trying to generate growth for all our good.

I don't find the phrase 'professional Northerner' patronising or classist really. It perfectly describes someone like Mr Burnham who hams up the fact he's northern as almost a personality trait and as if it makes him automatically more trustworthy and wholesome as a result. He knows exactly what he's doing and who his audience is for this kind of identity politics.