In-laws shared beds with 4 year old DD and used my bedroom while babysitting

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I’ve changed my name because I’ve told a couple of people in real life about this and don’t want the link.

My DH and I have been away for a couple of nights without the kids (9 and 4). His parents looked after the kids the last two nights. We have 3 double bedrooms and then one kid’s bedroom with bunk beds.

We had one of the doubles set up as the spare room that the in laws always sleep in, with the usual fresh bedding etc. The second double has my 9 year old in. The third double is mine and my husband’s bedroom, the bedroom with bunk beds is where my 4 year old sleeps.

On the second night my DH parents (my children’s grandparents) decided that my 4 year old should sleep in the spare room with Grandpa (my FIL). My MIL got into my and DH bed (our bedroom not ready for guests, no clean bedding, things like medication left out).

I’m furious. Partially because I don’t think it’s appropriate for a grandfather to decide to sleep in a bed with his granddaughter who is 4. I’ve asked her whether it was ok. She understands the PANTS rules. She said that grandpa kissed her on the lips.

Secondly my MIL getting into my bed is a massive breach of privacy.

I don’t like my PIL so that may be clouding my judgement, but how they acted isn’t ok, right? What do I (my DH) do?

Grandpa kissed her on the lips in bed ??

I am sure being older is clouding judgement etc but he shouldn’t have done that. He’s a man that is not her parent and that could very easily make it seem to her that it is ok for a man to kiss her in bed when they are alone. She’s so young , that’s really not right to do. Personally, that don’t sit right with me at all ..

Why didn’t MIL sleep with her or put her in with both of them ?

Some people do kiss children on the lips quite innocently. I really dislike it but some people think nothing of it. As a primary teacher I frequently see mothers kissing their children on the lips when they say goodbye in the morning. It makes me cringe but it’s clearly perfectly innocent, just the way they do things.

I have no idea whether or not your FIL had bad intentions, but just thought I ought to put my twopenn'orth in! But presumably you have seen him kiss your DD before - on the cheek, or where?

Sleeping in your bed is a cheek. I would let them know that you’re not happy about that, and that your DD has told you Grandad kissed her on the lips and you don’t want him to do that again as you’re trying to teach her what’s acceptable from others.

MIL in your bed - weird.
Grandparents sharing a bed with a child who was having difficulty settling - fine. Assuming that was the reason?
Grandparents kissing grandchildren - normal. Only on mumsnet is a peck on the lips (assume confirmed to be this?) worthy of comment.

Grandparents kissing grandchildren is not normal.

Ask mil why she didn’t get into dd’s bed rather than yours.

Im on in laws side here sorry. My FIL will and has slept in bed with our children many times when they've stayed over (divorced, MIL not around). He's their grandad and if I trust him enough to look after our children I trust him enough that I'd never think anything nefarious would happen on his watch. The sleeping in your bed is a bit meh but wash your sheets, say thanks for having them and move on.

Yes to this!

I think it's important to remember what's easy for you may be less easy for older grandparents.

You might sit or lie on the floor beside a four year old in a bottom bunk but her grandfather may not be able to do that. Getting into bed with her isn't unreasonable if that's going to be an easier way to soothe her.

Carrying her to her own bed once asleep would be obvious for most people so the grandparents could sleep together but depending on their strength / the size and length of the four year old that might have been too difficult for them.

I think this isn't a thing to be angry about - it was how they all achieved sleep after a night when that had been hard.

Presumably because it's a bunk bed?

It gives me the ick a bit but I don't think I'd say anything about MIL sleeping in my bed. I think you are overreacting about that a bit. You don't know why the 4 year old was in with grandad. Maybe she was sad because you were away and he got her to sleep in there and fell asleep. Getting kids to bed is hard and you have to accept it won't necessarily go as you you want.
in sure you would not leave your kids if you had any concerns about the grandad. A kiss on the lips could be pretty benign.

I think you are looking for reasons to not like them more if I'm mmm honest.

I may be going against the grain but I don’t think there’s anything necessarily wrong with it.

I say this because we are a bed-sharing family. Both me and DH come from bed-sharing families. It was very normal for us as children to share beds with our parents for comfort. And we have always done the same with our children.

I remember finding out that MIL slept in bed with our kids when they were little and that didn’t bother me. I would have felt the same had it been my FIL.

I think digging deeper and finding out if your DH bed-shared with his parents when he was little would be useful to provide context.

Also, my MIL had chosen to sleep in our bed when staying here whilst we’ve been away in the past. It is odd but we do have the nicest room in the house so I can kind of understand. I now make sure every room has clean sheets before we go away.

When you say you spoke to her about sleeping with grandad what exactly did you say? It’s very easy to lead a child when asking these types of questions. I don’t agree with most if the comments saying this is weird, they probably thought your children would settle better and are probably horrified to think you’d twist this in to something sinister. Also with regards to her sleeping on your bed, stick your sheets in the machine and get over it. What a way to treat your child’s grandparents who were helping to give you a break.

He's their grandad and if I trust him enough to look after our children I trust him enough that I'd never think anything nefarious would happen on his watch. - @Pppppplease

Not to single you out, but to use you as an example of what many people are saying:

Sorry, but people with this mindset are being potentially naive/ignorant/arrogant if you think you think that you can trust anyone 100% and can tell that someone will abuse children. The crux is that you can't, unless the circumstances are such that red flags show themselves. Paedophiles are extremely manipulate, and they often play the long game. The people who, after someone has been caught, say "he's the last person I would have thought was up to that" aren't necessarily stupid or obtuse.

Safeguarding children means being aware that there can be predatory people amongst the people that you trust, it's really as basic as that. Anyone who has had proper safeguarding training is essentially taught this.

It doesn't mean you have to assume everyone is or accuse people, but it means not doing your children a disservice by conditionally trusting and minimising opportunity.

Absolutely but that’s my point - we don’t know. And neither does OP. This situation needs a lot more discussion/investigation before brushing under the carpet. There is no such thing as being too careful when it comes to safeguarding your children.

Sorry to hear you are having to manage this, its a terribly tricky conversation to have. I would be inclined to speak to them myself as your DH may be awkward broaching it. I would also potentially speak to them separately to make sure their stories match up and not say what your daughter told you intially to see what they reveal.

I think some grandparents have a very different understanding of how things can be perceived nowadays and are not aware of behaviour that would cause concern or be seen as a red flag.

Hopefully, it was just how they managed an exhausting eve and fell asleep sharing a bed because they were tired, but as most abuse does happen with people who are known to families, it is important this isn't brushed under the carpet. I had to tell my in laws to stop lip kissing my children when they were younger but that happened in the sitting room or kitchen not a bedroom or in a bed.

As a parent you have every right to know what happened. It's a very awkward conversation to have but our children's wellbeing and safety is more important than offending a family member. Don't let anyone make you feel you are over reacting.

I wish you all the best.

Wow. Blown away by the reams of comments from people playing this down. This goes way beyond inappropriate. As someone who was sexually abused by a close older male relative at the same age, I see familiar patterns here. Bed-sharing under the pretence of “settling”, kissing on lips in bed??? No. This cannot be swept under the carpet. I’d be reporting grandpa to the police. I’m sorry, I’m not trying to alarm you needlessly but WAKE UP everyone, this happens. It happened to me, just the way described here.

Eh? What do your children get from their grandparents? A handshake?

My parents trusted my grandparents.

I was sexually abused by my grandfather - my grandmother was always in the house when it happened, and my parents were often there as well.

Do you think that children who're abused by family members are deliberately left with them by parents who know what's going to happen?

A cuddle or A lovely kiss on the cheek, forehead. Not on the lips.

So why say "Grandparents kissing grandchildren is not normal"?

The thread is about lips kissing. I missed the “lips” bit clearly in this post but thats the whole point of the thread.

How have they been for the previous 9 years ? Or is this the first time you've left them/got cameras up now/older child ringing you.

What is your dh saying znd doing about this?..

I would be fuming

Quoting myself to correct a typo: my last sentence should say 'unconditionally", not conditionally, that's quite an important distinction!

I think many posters are going to be clouded by what is normal in their household and their personal experience (massive sympathy for those who experienced SA as a child) - but it is a spectrum.

I think the OP doesnt like her ILs and consequently agrees only with posters expressing similar views to hers.
This post seems purely about validating an opinion.

OP should speak to her DP - she obviously doesnt trust her ILs and needs to say this to her DP.

I expect she wont share this post due to the variety of opinions shared.