In-laws shared beds with 4 year old DD and used my bedroom while babysitting

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I’ve changed my name because I’ve told a couple of people in real life about this and don’t want the link.

My DH and I have been away for a couple of nights without the kids (9 and 4). His parents looked after the kids the last two nights. We have 3 double bedrooms and then one kid’s bedroom with bunk beds.

We had one of the doubles set up as the spare room that the in laws always sleep in, with the usual fresh bedding etc. The second double has my 9 year old in. The third double is mine and my husband’s bedroom, the bedroom with bunk beds is where my 4 year old sleeps.

On the second night my DH parents (my children’s grandparents) decided that my 4 year old should sleep in the spare room with Grandpa (my FIL). My MIL got into my and DH bed (our bedroom not ready for guests, no clean bedding, things like medication left out).

I’m furious. Partially because I don’t think it’s appropriate for a grandfather to decide to sleep in a bed with his granddaughter who is 4. I’ve asked her whether it was ok. She understands the PANTS rules. She said that grandpa kissed her on the lips.

Secondly my MIL getting into my bed is a massive breach of privacy.

I don’t like my PIL so that may be clouding my judgement, but how they acted isn’t ok, right? What do I (my DH) do?

I hate adults kissing children on the lips no need for it. If there was problems with the little one getting off to sleep why didn’t the older child share a bed. I don’t think this is going to end well for you op if your husband says anything to them.

So you think its innocent and the PiL haven’t actually abused your 4yr old.

yet you started a thread that was worded in such a way that you were basically calling the FIL guilty of abuse and MIL as aiding it, knowing that would whip the masses up into a frenzy. All to reinforce your hatred of your PIL?!

thats pretty evil

I think because Grandpa was in that room with the 4 yo

I think you have misread the OP. If I came home to find my FiL had shared a bed with my DD4 and my MiL had slept in my bed, I would be futious, primarily because I had made arrangements for who was to sleep where and thry had done something else, with my children in my house. The sleeping with my child would make me very uneasy and I would do as OP has done and talk to my DD. Those sentiments,mwhich seem to be the OP's on my reading, are quite a way off from thinking my FiL was an abuser and my MiL was an enabler. That's obviously the nightmare scenario and not the one a rational person would jump to first.

Typo

If you really think grandpa is capable of the totally unacceptable behaviour you’re implying, why on earth would you have them look after the kids unsupervised for 2 nights?

Do the kids like these grandparents? Is it possible they were just struggling to get 4 yo to settle and that’s how it ended up?

If you make an accusation that’s the relationship over forever.

I loved my granddad and used to go get in his or my grandma’s bed in the morning when I’d stay over. I used to insist on playing naked on the beach when I was 3, there were adults there. It was all innocent.

Ah I read that wrong, I read that the MIL had slept with the older child. So perhaps not a divide and conquer moment but I totally stand by the probability that they were bloody exhausted and just wanted to get the DCs to sleep. Perhaps MIL was even more exhausted that FIL so she bagged the bed on her own!

Oh for goodness sake. She wasn’t evil to lay out what had happened and ask if others find it weird or if she’s overreacting because of unrelated negative feelings about them.

She didn’t call him a paedo, she noted a boundary was crossed and rightly checked in with her child. Sure it was probably innocent, but it is - at least - odd behaviour that reflects a difference in approach and values from the OP.

I would be worried about what other guidance they’d be ignoring (car seats, cutting up grapes etc) and wouldn’t trust them to look after my kids again.

Also, separately I would NEVER sleep in someone’s bed uninvited, especially with unclean sheets. Gross. What a weird choice on their part.

This is definitely household dependent.
We are a family where we all bunk in together.
Just been on holiday and it was musical beds as everyone tried to find the matress/aircon that suited them.
I accept this is the case and
Would have washed all bedding before I left!

I have no issue with my parents or my in laws bunking in with my children. They are totally safe people I 100% trust or I wouldnt leave my children with them.

Kissing on lips very normal in my house. I still kiss my parents that way (obvs a peck).
I think OP is clouded by her dislike of PILs.

In addition to me occasionally falling asleep while getting my grandchild to sleep, when she it get sister have a sleepover, I always wake up to find them in my bed. And if my late husband was still with us, I'm as sure as I can be that he would do what I do.

I'm so glad that I have a lovely laid back DD and son in law, who love the relationship that their children have with me. And I know that DD would be so happy if her dad was still around to be the same affectionate grandparent.

But surely you just both know that’s inappropriate and would naturally have the female sleeping with the young child if really necessary so it’s that option or they sleep alone?

Most abuse happens from a related male so it’s not dramatic to think sleeping with Grandad is unnecessary and concerning.

I have a 3.5yo who cosleeps from 2am ish. Have you left them overnight with them before? If so, what happened? If not, I would have probably had a conversation before hand about what their plan should be if either was unsettled in the night and your own boundaries around this. Id expect my in laws to need to bedshare or expect an unsetttled night (its why we do not go away) and know other grandparents who do this, but usually the grandmother. If this wasn't discussed beforehand and there was no other unoccupied room with an adult bed in I can see how it happened to be honest, but would be more comfortable with mil. I personally would have left my bedroom assuming that someone even the kids may enter it given i was away for 2 days and therefore it would only slightly bother me that someone slept in my bed, but I don't see my bedroom as particularly private, only my drawers etc. I would not be happy with the lip kissing unless you've observed this between them before. I think you could have avoided all of this with better communication from before the trip - they may well have not known what to do in the moment

Does he kiss your grandkids on the lips too?

It’s inappropriate to normalise kissing other adults on the lips.

Like I said. She knowingly wrote it in a way where that is exactly what she is saying without saying it to get a certain response.

I’m sorry but if I thought my child had been abused, the PIL would have been asked to explain the sleeping arrangements then asked to leave so that the police could be called. I wouldn’t be running to mumsnet to whip up a frenzy to fuel my hatred of the PIL.

I don’t understand why she let them babysit when she doesn’t trust them.

My nephew is 4 and he sleeps in my bed, mums bed, dads bed. Anyone’s bed but his own. I frequently wake up when visiting to him snuggled in with me butt naked too (he’s in a no clothes phase). But weird that FIL decided to stay rather than MIL though.

Kissing on the lips in bed would be a red flag. If she just gave him a kiss downstairs during the day it’s different. Also depends if you’re a lips kissing family.

Honestly I think you’re under reacting and if this was me I would be absolutely furious and also very very concerned. It’s completely inappropriate for your FIL to be sleeping in bed alone with a 4 year old girl and although kissing on the lips may be something they do in the daytime, for example as a goodbye, it’s very disturbing in the context of being in a bed/sleeping environment together. I personally would be addressing this immediately, whilst they are still there (obviously without the children present).

He tried not too as they are total snot goblins but they get through sometimes

primarily because I had made arrangements for who was to sleep where and thry had done something else, with my children in my house.

Kids don't always go along with what has been planned though!

Not that I think the right thing was necessarily for GF & 4yr old GD to be in the same bed.

If they haven't been left before then 2 nights is a lot & the GPs were the ones trying to get the kid to sleep & also sleep themselves.

' I took the kids out for a bike ride by themselves when we got back so I could gently talk to her. I asked her if Grandpa kissed her. She said ‘yes on the lips’. I talked to her about the pants rules and she said there wasn’t anything else. '

So you clearly had major alarm bells ringing to go to the trouble of specifically taking the children out not long after you returned from your 2 nights away so '
I could gently talk to her. '

and you had the pants talk again.

Yet these grandparents are still in your home as they were staying for dinner - I don't know if you meant Sunday Lunch i.e. around 2/3pm or dinner time i.e. 6/7pm

'I’m so angry but I need my DH to handle it and he wants to have a conversation with them away from the kids. Or do I mention it now? The children are here though.'

Why didn't he tell them whilst you were with the children out on their bikes

or

the two of you could have talked to them whilst the children played in the garden etc.

Today.

Now I guess they have left and gone home and nothing has been said to them ?

I know this is wildly missing the point but them getting you that book for Christmas is absolutely insane.
I'd be devastated if I got a book called that

One of my kids was very kissy too and always went for my lips, though it's something I never do (I'd always kiss on the cheek). Not sure why, just their way of kissing at young age.
So that alone is not a problem. Bed sharing would have been ok too, if it weren't for your MIL leaving the room. If she left because he snores/they had a fight, maybe but still... I hope you get to find out more to put your mind at rest xx

When we have them for 2 nights on the trot as long as they sleep who cares where or with who? My dd's kids don't sleep well we can be up multiple times and bed hopping is what they do with mummy and daddy. If I'm trying to get the little one back to sleep and dh's trying to get older one off again at 3am then it's a free for all. If you don't trust an adult don't leave your kids with them for over 48 hours. My DH would die before he allowed anyone to hurt our babies I trust him utterly. Our third grandson was a very poorly baby who needed to be fed every 2 hours for the first weeks of his life our DD got so exhausted she was hallucinating and he's stayed overnight with us regularly since 12 weeks old.

She asked him to help her get to sleep, if there was somewhere comfortable to sit in her room, I'd have gone with that as a first choice, but if not, or if that wasn't working, or I was exhausted and thought I'd fall asleep anyway, bed sharing would have been next option. I don't see that as particularly bothersome on its own. And I really don't see your MiL then sleeping in your bed as something awful - not ideal, but not worth getting upset over or even mentioning.

The kissing on the lips bothers me, but that's something that can be quite cultural and not necessarily sexual at all, so what I read into that would depend a lot on whether it was the sort of thing they'd been known to do as a matter of course in the past. If it wasn't a part of his normal way of greeting close people, I would no longer be leaving DC alone with PiL and would keep a beady eye on them when they were together.

I’ve been on MN for 15 years. Long ago there was a thread on whether adults kissing kids on the lips was normal or icky, and there was a 50:50 split, with the non-lip people throwing up their hands and the lip people saying it was totally normal.

Society has really changed on this… but I’d expect a lot of older people with young grandchildren are unlikely to have got the memo

We dont know the kissing happened in bed though?
Even so, most kids would do a kiss goodnight, mine always did.