In-laws shared beds with 4 year old DD and used my bedroom while babysitting

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I’ve changed my name because I’ve told a couple of people in real life about this and don’t want the link.

My DH and I have been away for a couple of nights without the kids (9 and 4). His parents looked after the kids the last two nights. We have 3 double bedrooms and then one kid’s bedroom with bunk beds.

We had one of the doubles set up as the spare room that the in laws always sleep in, with the usual fresh bedding etc. The second double has my 9 year old in. The third double is mine and my husband’s bedroom, the bedroom with bunk beds is where my 4 year old sleeps.

On the second night my DH parents (my children’s grandparents) decided that my 4 year old should sleep in the spare room with Grandpa (my FIL). My MIL got into my and DH bed (our bedroom not ready for guests, no clean bedding, things like medication left out).

I’m furious. Partially because I don’t think it’s appropriate for a grandfather to decide to sleep in a bed with his granddaughter who is 4. I’ve asked her whether it was ok. She understands the PANTS rules. She said that grandpa kissed her on the lips.

Secondly my MIL getting into my bed is a massive breach of privacy.

I don’t like my PIL so that may be clouding my judgement, but how they acted isn’t ok, right? What do I (my DH) do?

I would be fine with DC sharing a bed with a grandparent aged 4. Id expect a 4 year old to want in with a grandparent if their mummy and daddy was away multiple nights. They get clingy.

If you arent comfy with that, these arent people you should leave alone with your children overnight.

And you know them and your children. No judgement from me if you have doubts. Any however small is reason to not leave them.

The thing with your bed I think is weird, i think she should have slept in the bottom bunk. When they had their own room I thibk yours should have been off limits.it would irritate me but id let it go.

I said YABU becauae if you dont trust your ILs you should never have left your children with them

If millions of men hadn’t abused their power over children they had access to then we’d have less concerned replies. I hope it’s innocent and the wee girl sounds sure nothing abusive happened, but I’d ask for any lip kissing to end immediately. Sleeping in a bed with DGC seems pretty normal, when parents aren’t home kids are unsettled. It happens. But I’d not be leaving mine with someone who I had this fear about and clearly there is a fear here.

I have 4 DC and one loves a kiss on the lips, the others are cheek/head kisses. The lip kisser just started slobbering all over us and kissing us from a baby and never stopped. He’s getting to any age now where I think he’ll naturally feel shy continuing to seek out the lips and will just want a kiss on the forehead. But it’s never been anyone but myself and sometimes his dad he’ll try and throw the lips on. I’d not like it with anyone besides us. If I have grandchildren I’d discourage lip kisses as “only for mummy and daddy”.

Why would the two of them have decided Grandad should sleep with her and not Grandma though?

I agree with you when you say you don't do it because then there is zero doubt. But we are talking here about a case where it has been done, so the OP has to deal with evidence and, based on that, probability of harm. A kiss on the lips, which some find distasteful, and sleeping in the same bed, are not irrefutable evidence of sexual abuse, and not enough to warrant the trip to the police station some have misguidedly suggested. If OP, who after all knows her daughter, judges based on her conversation, that nothing untoward happened, on the balance of probabilities it didn't.

The critical point is whether OP trusts her in laws. In her shoes, I wouldn't allow them to be in charge overnight again because they do as they please and don't refer to OP or her DH.

My granddaughter would pick grandad every time I only get a look in if he's not around

There may be innocent explanations to this and therefore I wouldn’t go ballistic at them yet! Mil may snore, your 4 year old may have been difficult to get to sleep in your absence so they decided between them that MIL should go off to the other room and the 4 year old would also be kept awake by mil snoring.

This isn't a matter though of whether sexual abuse physically happened or not; it's not black or white.

Just because no directly sexual abuse occurred (which I of course sincerely hope is the case) t doesn't mean it wasn't abusive. Paedophile groom their victims, they get them used to being alone with them, and sharing some form of intimacy, even if it's 'only' emotional. A man who does that isn't just a danger to the little girl in this scenario, but to others.

Unfortunately you asked a leading question and put that answer in her head and so now you will likely never know what actually happened.

I would be very unhappy but my mum had slept in the bed with my DC at around the same age.

I would absolutely not want a man doing the same but only because of peadophile reasons - and so saying so us basically accusing him of being one.

I don’t think anything needs to be said to them but just never have them babysit again.

But I would then keep an ear out on anything else that DD says (do not ask leading Qs) and if you’re really concerned see if a professional can get it out of her.

Perfect

I slept in my daughter and son in law's bed when DD was having twins - I was there for two nights, alone with their first born who was two years old

Take your children away with you - my parents never went away without us,
just had nights out, no overnights.

we never went away for a break without our children

my grandchildren stay over every Friday and it's bed swaps several times before they settle, one of them doesn't appear to sleep - does that assume their parents don't think I'm condoning paedophilia?

only another 14 years before you can take another child free break

i hope your MIL washes her skin cells off your bedding for you

You don’t like your in laws but liked them enough to leave your children with them overnight?

If I don’t like someone, they’d never be in the vicinity of my children.

Every thing else conveyed in your post is weird on so many disturbing levels.

Only sick fucks kiss their children or grandchildren on the lips - or so I thought - and then I saw parents do that in full view of everyone by the school gates! Sick fucking bastards!
Sleeping in the same bed - no need. However my DB and I used to climb into our grandparents beds (they slept in separate rooms), either grandma's or grandpa's, uninvited. They chased us, but occasionally we would just stay and sleep with them.

I'm fuming just reading this, I would lose my mind. Do not ever let them babysit, they clearly don't think like normal people do

I know you don't like them. But do you suspect they are paedophiles? We co-sleep in my house. If grandparents were sitting they would need to be prepared to co-sleep - 3yo wouldn't sleep otherwise. Did they co-sleep with your DP as a child?

Just a different perspective ...

I have a DGS and we have him overnight sometimes - he's nearly 3. Absolutely adore him but having him 24/7 overnight for a couple of days is hard! Perhaps (and I'm just guessing here) PILs were exhausted. Your DC didn't want to go to sleep, they were missing you and DH, DD wanted FiL to help her get to sleep. I can almost hear the conversation between your PILs ...

'Lets divide and conquer Brian, your take DD and I'll just bunk down in OPs bed with 7yo at least then we might get some sleep - they'll be a nightmare in the morning if they don't sleep and we have to look after them all day.'

When you are in your late 50s and 60s and not used to interrupted sleep after a full on day with excitable kids, you'd do anything to sleep!

My 5 year old struggles to spend a whole night in his bed, usually creeps up at some point in the night and we co sleep.
When I had to go away for a funeral and stay overnight my Parents looked after my children. My 5 year old slept in our bed with his Nana (my step mum) and Grandad ended up in the 5 year olds bed. It wouldn’t have bothered me who had slept with him, I was just grateful that they had looked after him and enabled him to get to sleep.
He kicks and fidgets so I doubt she had much sleep but he would have been distraught if he had been sent back to his own bed.
Your daughter probably asked for her Grandad and they didn’t think it would be an issue.

What made you even ask about grandad kissing her?

They should have just left your 4 year old upset and unable to sleep. I co-sleep with my GC, now only the youngest (9), I didn't realise that would get me branded a pedophile.

Re kissing on the lips, because of cold sores, I don't think it should happen. How does your DH feel about you accusing his Dad of pedophilia and grooming? If you ever become GPs, remind him to only shake hands, wth his grandchildren, as our late Queen did.

Except in this instance the MIL did not have a child in bed with her. The 9yo was in their own bed by themselves. So they didn't divide and conquer.

Agree . As a grandma who have the grandchildren for the odd sleepover we will do whatever it takes to get sleep!! Musical beds ,grandad could end up sharing with either of the children! It has never crossed my mind or my daughter and SIL to question my husbands motives. We just do what works at the immediate time.
It’s bloody tiring looking after children aged under 5 whoever they are .
OP how did you know that FIL kissed the 4 year old on the lips? Did you ask or did the child offer the information? It just seems a very random comment from a child.

The OP can ensure there are no more opportunities for FiL to share a bed with DD or to be alone with her. What should she do if anything, about the possibility that her FiL grooms and may be a paedophile?

Typo

It is sad that a man can’t sleep (probably) innocently with his granddaughter without raising concerns. However, it is also sad that many many men abuse children. I wouldn’t feel comfortable with it either.

I think you’ve completely overreacted and wrote your post with little drips. Why didn’t you mention that they are actually a hugging and kissing type family? That would have made a lot more sense that he kissed her without thinking.

More likely what happened was gps were getting ready for bed, she wanted her grandad so got in, then grandma probably didn’t want to sleep in a bunk so got into your bed and they all ended up falling asleep!

Op if he wanted to do something he had an entire weekend to do it!
Also, it’s more concerning that you as a parent left medication at reach !

what a load of overreaction here. Your dd confirmed that nothing else happened.

They could've asked beforehand if that were the case. Grandpa sounds like a total creeper. Any man in this day and age knows better than that!

I am shocked by the minimising going on here. So many boundaries crossed, I would be concerned, surely any normal parent would. The pile on to make the OP feel like she is reacting abnormally is weird. Irrespective of abuse, there are some things you dont do, as a grown man, you dont share a bed alone with someone else's child and you don't sleep in other people's bedrooms without their consent. And as for making out she is making a fuss because she doesnt like them, is it any wonder she doesnt care for them. They sound fucking horrible.