In-laws shared beds with 4 year old DD and used my bedroom while babysitting

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I’ve changed my name because I’ve told a couple of people in real life about this and don’t want the link.

My DH and I have been away for a couple of nights without the kids (9 and 4). His parents looked after the kids the last two nights. We have 3 double bedrooms and then one kid’s bedroom with bunk beds.

We had one of the doubles set up as the spare room that the in laws always sleep in, with the usual fresh bedding etc. The second double has my 9 year old in. The third double is mine and my husband’s bedroom, the bedroom with bunk beds is where my 4 year old sleeps.

On the second night my DH parents (my children’s grandparents) decided that my 4 year old should sleep in the spare room with Grandpa (my FIL). My MIL got into my and DH bed (our bedroom not ready for guests, no clean bedding, things like medication left out).

I’m furious. Partially because I don’t think it’s appropriate for a grandfather to decide to sleep in a bed with his granddaughter who is 4. I’ve asked her whether it was ok. She understands the PANTS rules. She said that grandpa kissed her on the lips.

Secondly my MIL getting into my bed is a massive breach of privacy.

I don’t like my PIL so that may be clouding my judgement, but how they acted isn’t ok, right? What do I (my DH) do?

Feel like we need both sides of the story here, as I think there could be innocent explanations and over reacting.

I would have expected a message from the in laws after the first night if they were planning a totally new sleep strategy that involved sleeping in your bed!

It’s weird to do it without consulting you, unless perhaps you were out of mobile coverage or something?

It also makes them sound like very difficult people to have a reasonable conversation with but that is what is needed

So the grandparents had told you by then what happened regarding the sleeping arrangements, this would have been the ideal time to express your unhappiness and let them explain why they chose to sleep like this and you could have voiced your boundaries with them then.

There's families who kiss on the lips there's some that don't, if lip kissing is a total no no in your eyes you must tell them that.

The bed sleeping, it can be totally innocent and he was just being caring it does and can happen, to me it sounds like the kids wouldn't settle/go to sleep they were all tired and just did whatever worked then and there, obviously they could have chosen other options but probably weren't thinking straight.

It's not hysterical to be concerned about behaviour that, whilst yes, could be innocent, could equally also be potential signs of grooming and abuse. The point is we don't know which it is, and the OP doesn't know without talking about it fully to her DH, her DD and PIL.

Maybe look at it from their point of view. Perhaps they had a nightmare trying to get two small kids to sleep and did the best with what they had? They have looked after your children for 2 days and nights, not slept well, and are probably tired. Your MIL may have thought she'd rather not have slept in your bed, but as it is a bed that needs changing anyway, she has saved you washing an extra bed? Maybe just ask them how it all went and thank them for their help. Do you think if she hadn't slept in your bed you might have found something else to be angry about? If you are uncomfortable with them looking after the kids then it doesn't have to happen again, but I would try to see their point of view before getting too upset

I'd be fuming and they absolutely wouldn't be alone with the kids again.

You had told them where to sleep and where the kids sleep. MIL shouldn't have slept in your bed without permission. That's just boundary crossing.

FIL absolutely should not have slept in bed with your 4yo. That is completely unacceptable and inappropriate.

When my nieces were younger my mum and stepdad were telling us how one had had a sleepover and how she'd slept in bed with SD in just his pants and her in just a nightie as though it was funny. He has never been near my kids without me present and we avoid visiting while he's there. My kids will never sleep there.
When visiting my dad I noticed he'd started trying to take DS to play in other rooms away from the rest of the group. We haven't been back. We rarely saw him anyway so it's no great loss but if we do see him again DS will be staying in our sight.
In laws are advocates for smacking kids. They fully abused DH and tell us our kids needs a smack or that we're too soft etc. they have never been alone with our kids.

So I'm not just saying it, I absolutely would not leave them unsupervised with my children. It's not worth the risk.

My mum has been alone with my children and we have a friend who I trust. But I still wouldn't allow them to bring a man along.

Men are more likely to be paedophiles the older they get, a man that's a paedophile in his 70s wasn't necessarily one in his 30s so just because they didn't abuse their children, or you don't remember them doing so. Doesn't mean they won't abuse their grandchildren.

I find it surprising how many people think it's acceptable for a woman to willingly sleep on her son and daughter in law's unwashed sheets. It's not something I'd want to do.

Paedophiles will usually abuse whatever pre-pubescent child falls into their clutches.

Rarely. They often know their victims. Are often family members actually and almost all have an age range, look or sex they prefer.

I worked in Forensics for a long time (not being specific as very outing).

Agree, I slept with my grandparents when I stayed at theirs and sometimes it was just one of them and there were kisses on the lips, initiated by me but it was just a peck like I saw mum do.....it was purely innocent. I think you are jumping the gun here and you should never leave your child with someone you do not trust anyway.

But Grandpa could have slept on the double with granddaughter and granny could have slept on the bottom bunk bed.

They sound stupid and for that reason I'd never leave dc overnight again with them.

Regardless of how innocent it was or how the dgc may have wanted grandpa you don't sleep the whole night with a 4yr old!

Such poor judgements from the adults.

Why on earth didn't one of them just get in the spare bunk bed?

Not sure you can say anything now just don't let them babysit again.

Just because a child initiates something doesn't make it ok. It is your responsibility as an adult to have healthy boundaries. My DS has puckered for a kiss from the neighbours. Doesn't mean they kissed him.

I hope your dc doesn't tell nursery or school

I just would never leave them with the children again.

I would have thought most men these days would be extra aware that there could be misinterpretation and so would avoid such situations. Ditto kissing on the lips. Very easy to avoid all this if you just don't do it.

No point in lecturing them now, adapt your own behaviour going forward. If he was innocent, he'll be very upset to be accused, if he's not, then he'll try to repeat the experience. Either way, there's no point in telling them, just take action and that's that.

Well we are obviously a very inappropriate family.

You need to separate out your feelings around mil sleeping in your room (which I would hate, but isn't a safety issue for your kids), from you FiL sharing a bed with DD. Your worry is that he was engineering a scenario to sexually abuse her. If so, he can't be alone with him again and I don't think I would trust MIL to keep the kids safe. If you are genuinely worried this is what's happened, you can't have a "setting boundaries" conversation as you have no trust he'd follow through. Having a go at them might only mean they apologize and are "more careful" later, ie more careful to make sure you don't find out.

My kids don't sleep well for other people, last time 6 year old DD stayed with grandparents she couldn't sleep and ended up in bed with my mum. I think the first conversation needs to be trying to understand the sequence of events etc. Eg DD couldn't sleep so came and found grandparents, got into bed with them and fell asleep, FIL already asleep or DM more in need of a separate bed eg snores, so she gets out and finds somewhere else to sleep. Then with the kiss on the lips, is this normal for them, have you seen that happen before etc.

Ultimately you won't be able to know for certain, you have to weigh up what you know about FIl/MIL, what they say happened, what DD said happened, what you know about DD eg is she normally a good sleeper.

I wouldn't "go ballistic". I would wait till they leave then have a measured conversation with DH about it, decide how worried you are and then work out what sort of conversation you want to have or stop contact unless you are in the room.

My grandparents (well one of them) did kiss us kids on the lips, what is the moral difference between a parent and a grandparent?
Parents didn't, and I would never do this, because we now understand more about cold sores etc-so I'd not allow it but not for any creepy thoughts reason-but because it can be dasngerous. Just like car seats, SIDS etc we know more now.
I don't agree with co-sleeping but lots of cultures do, and lots of parents/grandparents allow kids to sleep in their bed if they ask.

My mother in lay on my bed to read bedtime stories when babysitting ( instead of our lovely & bigger guest room) and I felt violated and upset. But my room is really private to me. Whereas she has nothing personal or private really like that and wouldn’t care if someone went in her room. So I think in large part it was just different understanding of privacy. I let it go. But tidying massively and cleared everything done before she came next time.

I would not be seeing my in laws again. Ever.

If they can't understand why, that is part of the problem.

There are no reasonable explanations here.

PP have given several reasonable explanations.

I guess I probably think it's only appropriate if the parents are definitely ok with it. Which is a slightly different thing to what I actually said, so yes, point taken. And we definitely weren't lip-kissers at all, so that's probably influencing me a bit - I had plenty of friends whose families were though.

I get that kissing kids on the lips is more common in some families what I don't understand is if this is something the GF had done before. If the first time he has done it is when the parents are not around it feels like a red flag

There are none.

The point is precisely that you can't safeguard if you have 'reasonable' explanations for a grandparent sleeping with a grandchild.

The whole point is you don't do it because then there is zero doubt.

Bringing up the weight loss book as a reason to dislike my in-laws would be the very last thing on my mind if I thought my child had possibly undergone one of the worst things that can happen to anyone. MIL being in my bed would not be worth mentioning. I would simply not even consider that important.

I’d be maddened with worry. I doubt I’d have even drifted here.

The dislike is evidently there and I can understand why they may not be her favourite people.

It feels troublesome to me though. An accusation of terrible things would be one way of never having them darken the door again.

Im assuming everyone knows how rife child sexual abuse is? It's not a bad thing that we are finally teaching children about boundaries.
Children shouldn't be sharing a bed with a grown up (especially male, just on perpetrator ratio) apart from a parent. They certainly shouldn't be encouraged to kiss said grown up on the lips in bed.