How do we ACTUALLY solve the rift between dog people and non-dog people?

[Talkingtomyhouseplants]

Inspired by yet another dog thread where all the SAME arguments are trotted out again and again:

The Pro Dog People say:

• The dog is my family, you need to treat it like family
• Why would I get a dog just to leave it at home?
• It’s just a dog, it’s not bothering anyone
• My dog is less annoying than your child
• I love my dog more than I love people
• The dogs are ALLOWED to be there so it’s okay that I bring them places
• If my dog isn’t invited, I would probably choose to stay home as I prefer most dogs to people anyway
• My house is my dog’s home too, I won’t be shutting it away for anyone
• My dog isn’t dangerous - he’s a bit softy.

The Anti Dog People Say

• I’m allergic/scared/don’t like being around them - please keep them away from me
• It’s a pet, not your family
• A dog is not a child
• I won’t have dogs in my house
• Dogs are dirty and unhygienic - they shouldn’t be in shops or places where you eat
• I’m sick of dogs barking and jumping up at me in public and I keep stepping in dog poo
• There are too many places that either actively allow dogs, or more often don’t challenge people who bring them anyway so dogs eventually become allowed
• Dog owners are entitled and pushy and this is why they are now suddenly everywhere
• It’s dangerous to have dogs around children
• Dogs can bite/kill people
• There are too many untrained dogs who are treated like people

Same arguments on both sides, every time.

In my personal life I can think of at least two situations where these opposing views are creating real rifts in families because the dog person wants to bring a dog, and the non-dog person doesn’t want to be around said dog. I can feel it becoming more polarising in society generally, anti dog people are more vocal about being anti dog and pro dog people are more pushy about full inclusion of dogs in human spaces.

So what is the actual solution?

Why do we need everyone to be the same?

I'm perfectly able to understand that different people like different things and so long as no one tries to push their point of view on others, just let everyone get on with it.

They are not a human member of the family. But a family pet. Much loved usually.
But the equation that saying they are a member of the family seems to have become a justification to take dogs anywhere and everywhere. Not only that but to be proactively welcomed anywhere and everywhere.

They are a member of your family in so much they are a family pet. Very loved, but a different species.

And what about the dogs food? Surely that is destroying also destroying the planet?

I agree. However, on the countless dog thread on here, you get a dog owner saying they take their well behaved dog to a cafe that welcomes dogs, and you get the vocal few who tell them that they are all that is wrong with humanity and they are doing something wrong.
I just don't understand that at all.

It is a modern issue. There were not these conversations years ago. People did moan about dogs let out rather than being taken for a walk. But mostly, people who were dog owners had different expectations when it came to the family pet.
Things have changed, and as a consequence, I wouldn’t call it a rift, but there is a social issue around much to do with dogs.

I have never met a owner who thinks their dog is human.
My dog was very much family to me.

Glad to see that over the counter flea treatment is up for a ban. This is an excellent idea. My sisters have dogs that love the water. They are very happy to go along with the ban as well. Their breeds are medium sized, are beautiful and excellently behaved all went to dog training classes.

None of them are spayed though - one female and two males. So there's also restrictions on where the dogs will be going during the breeding season.

I stay stop whinging about the existence of other species in the world. We're more intelligent and remarkably adaptable but we're not special. We aren't the only ones to live here. They have as much right to be here as we do.

Oh yeah I knew what you meant - I mean they will smell of dog. Everyone that has a dog has a house that smells of dog.

I don’t think people literally do think their dog is a human.
But many people lose the distinction in terms of behaviours around dogs. And what they expect others ( restaurant owners and hoteliers) to do for them. They do often expect their member of the family to be treated as if they are another human being.
And yes, they are very much part of your family.
My point though is that they are a pet. And expectations as to what, where and how they are taken, treated should not be the same as for a human.

Erm I have a dog so am “pro dog” I guess, but I don’t agree with some of the supposed pro dog points. He isn’t a human he is a dog, and I don’t take him everywhere. I respect that some people don’t like dogs.
Maybe we could just go back to how things were 20 years ago before there was this endless debate about dogs?
Also tbh in real life I find that most people do like dogs as long as they’re well behaved, so this is more of a MN issue than a real world one

I love dogs, I have had dogs but this ridiculous need for people to drag their dogs into John Lewis/restaurants/coffee shops all the time is just baffling to me.

If dog are allowed, they're allowed. Don't go there expecting there not to be dogs there. If dog free is important to you, then restrict yourself to do free spaces.

How many people regularly see dogs in John Lewis?

Not because of the dog. It is because they are unreasonable on both sides.

So if there was no dog involved they would live in peace and harmony or would there be another reason to cause a rift.

@Ihaveneedofwaternear, such a generalisation. Well, I can speak from a subjective perspective because I do have a dog. My house does not smell. Now if I had poor hygiene standards my house could smell, dog or no dog, don’t you think?
Also I would be interested in the kind of smell you mean. Wet dog and musty, shitty or like dog pee. I can’t actually bring anything to mind and where I live most people have
a dog. But I just can’t say I have sensed the smell you allude to. I am genuinely interested.

Me and DH love dogs. We have had dogs all our married life (46 years). We have always trained them to behave, walk nicely by our side, ignore other dogs, people etc and that has not always been easy as most of our dogs have been rescues and quite a few were badly abused.

We have always cleared up after our dogs, even going to the extreme when we run out of bags on a walk to knock and ask the homeowner if they could let us have a carrier bag to clear up.

We both hate that some dog owners don't clear up, leave full poo bags on branches or on the ground, let their dogs jump at people and other dogs, let their dogs run up to other dogs and hassle them. It gives good dog owners a bad name.

When we first got married dogs were not allowed anywhere in the UK really. No shops, eating places (some allowed them outside) and almost no hotels. We then moved to France and dogs were not just allowed but welcomed in restaurants, lots of shops and just about all hotels. We got used to taking our dog places with us.

Now the UK has become dog friendly. We take our dog to cafes and restaurants regularly and he lays quietly and causes no problems whatsoever. He is so relaxed he often falls asleep. If we leave him at home we can see him on the camera pacing around and sometimes crying. He is a rescue and we are teaching him that it is ok to be left alone (we would never leave him for more than 3 hours) but it is nicer for us and him to take him with us.

The smell that I sometimes notice is possibly what some people refer to as wet dog? I think it comes from the dog's coat?

I don't have a dog of my own and I don't notice it with all dogs.

If people
a) picked up their dog poo
b) stopped letting their dog bound up to me/jump
up at me/stick their face in my dinner/lick me or my children whilst saying “it’s ok they’re friendly”
I would honestly have no problem with dogs

Dog people need to accept that their dog is only important to them, and other people don’t need to like or respect the dog.

Anti-dog people need to accept that from time to time they might be inconvenienced by a dog when out in public, amongst other things that may inconvenience them.

Essentially, suck it up and don’t be a twat.

Absolutely.

From your points, OP, the main issue is this one:

• There are too many places that either actively allow dogs, or more often don’t challenge people who bring them anyway so dogs eventually become allowed

If this stopped and people went back to taking their dogs to appropriate places then the whole issue would be solved and could go back to how it was prior to the last ten years.

The countryside, certain designated areas of parks, certain designated areas of beaches, their own gardens, pub beer gardens, pubs (if they can sit quietly under a table and don't infringe on anyone else).

Taking dogs into restaurants, coffee shops,clothes shops, cinemas (yes, some have dog days!), furniture shops, retail parks etc is not in the best interests of dogs or other people.

Taking dogs to these places because "they can't be left at home" is like taking a baby to a nightclub. It's not fair to the baby or other people.

Therefore, don't go, or find a baby/dogsitter. It's not a nice life for a dog going round a town centre, sitting in Starbucks, navigating round Oliver Bonas, and fighting through the crowds at Selfridge's.

It doesn't need solving. I had dogs and other animals for years. I don't now. I like animals, I lived having them, but I don't see them as 'children'. They're not, they're pets.

So people who are allergic to dogs should just....shut up and die? Nice!

but yes, agree with @VivienneDelacroix - people have liked and not liked dogs for centuries, but it was never an issue until they started to be allowed everywhere. There is literally no reason why a (non-service) dog needs to go to the cinema, ffs. If you can't survive 3 hours without your pet there's something wrong with you.

Everyone got on well for the 30 years prior!

THEY DO NOT!!! Why do some people insist that all houses with a dog smell? It is a pathetic and ridiculous thing to say. Different breeds have different types of coat and some smell and some don't just as some moult and some don't.

As I said before, I have many friends with dogs and some of their houses smell of dog and some don't. The ones that don't have the same breeds