How do we ACTUALLY solve the rift between dog people and non-dog people?

[Talkingtomyhouseplants]

Inspired by yet another dog thread where all the SAME arguments are trotted out again and again:

The Pro Dog People say:

• The dog is my family, you need to treat it like family
• Why would I get a dog just to leave it at home?
• It’s just a dog, it’s not bothering anyone
• My dog is less annoying than your child
• I love my dog more than I love people
• The dogs are ALLOWED to be there so it’s okay that I bring them places
• If my dog isn’t invited, I would probably choose to stay home as I prefer most dogs to people anyway
• My house is my dog’s home too, I won’t be shutting it away for anyone
• My dog isn’t dangerous - he’s a bit softy.

The Anti Dog People Say

• I’m allergic/scared/don’t like being around them - please keep them away from me
• It’s a pet, not your family
• A dog is not a child
• I won’t have dogs in my house
• Dogs are dirty and unhygienic - they shouldn’t be in shops or places where you eat
• I’m sick of dogs barking and jumping up at me in public and I keep stepping in dog poo
• There are too many places that either actively allow dogs, or more often don’t challenge people who bring them anyway so dogs eventually become allowed
• Dog owners are entitled and pushy and this is why they are now suddenly everywhere
• It’s dangerous to have dogs around children
• Dogs can bite/kill people
• There are too many untrained dogs who are treated like people

Same arguments on both sides, every time.

In my personal life I can think of at least two situations where these opposing views are creating real rifts in families because the dog person wants to bring a dog, and the non-dog person doesn’t want to be around said dog. I can feel it becoming more polarising in society generally, anti dog people are more vocal about being anti dog and pro dog people are more pushy about full inclusion of dogs in human spaces.

So what is the actual solution?

What about the rest. Dogs are allowed but not dog focused?

Are you suggesting people should euthanise their kids?

I do think that people should be held legally responsible for the actions of their dog. I think people would be far more careful in how they looked after and trained them if they knew that if their dog attacked someone the owner would be charged with assault or whatever the appropiate crime was up to murder.

It sounds simple, but it doesn't solve the problem of irresponsible owners in public places. I'm not sure what the answer is - stiffer penalties for those who fail to keep their dogs in check?

I can't speak for the rest of the UK, but the law in Scotland actually requires owners to pick up after their dogs and yet the verge on the exterior of my hedge is have dog deposits all the way down. Can't be very pleasant for the council workers who have to cut the grass.

It's certainly not pleasant for me when I'm cutting the exterior of my hedge.

Maybe making an example of owners who are caught would help stop the anti-social behaviour?

If I am to be honest - I don't see half the antipathy between "dog people" and "not dog people" IRL as I see on MN.

No. I'm suggesting they shouldn't kill their dogs!

Most non-dog owners don't mind dogs - they just object to irresponsible owners.

This, exactly 💯

I actually really like dogs, I just don't want dogs licking or jumping on me, pissing on my kids' sandcastles, stealing my picnic, I don't want to see dog shit everywhere and I don't want to hear incessant barking.

It's usually useless 'he's friendly' owners of poodle-mixes causing all of the above due to having zero control and zero interest in anyone else.

Isn't this only really a thing in online communities? In reality, I feel like most people are... pretty indifferent? Unless there is a dog running wild in a public place and putting people at risk

I wasn’t a dog person until I got one. He doesn’t come everywhere with me and I wouldn’t take him to other peoples houses. He’s on the lead for walks on paths and pavements and off lead in open spaces and woodland. No peeing or pooing in other people’s gardens and poo always picked and disposed of properly.

If we’re on holiday or out for the day we’ll have lunch in a pub with outdoor seating and he’ll sit there with us, away from others if at all possible. Never inside an eating place, I’d have fish and chips on a park bench rather than take him inside.

For me that’s the absolute minimum that should be required of dog owners. I chose to have a dog, people around me didn’t.

Ide be alot more tolerant to dogs if people trained their dogs properly. A well behaved dog that stays by its owners side, doesn't come up to me or barks at me for breathing I can deal with.
The problem is their is ALOT of people out there that dont train their dogs so it gives all dog owners a bad name.
Seems to of got worse since covid when the world and his wife got a dog but didnt train it.
I will never agree with dogs in places that serve food though, just gives me the ick. Guides dogs an exception obviously.

Sounds like your family love the drama tbh. There are plenty of dog owners who are sensitive to non-dog people. And plenty of non-dog owners who don't mind a dog visiting.

I loathe cats. I mean really, I think they are revolting, anti-social hissy little feckers who shit everywhere (and no one picks it up). If I'm having a cuppa with cat-owning Aunty Jean and Tiddles jumps up on my lap, do I push it away and say urgh that's revolting, I hate you?

No, because I am not a drama queen. I Grit My Teeth while Aunty Jean says 'oh look, he likes you!'. Because I love Aunty Jean and the cat makes her happy. And I don't live there and can go home and have a shower and wash the cat away.

That's a completely fair point. I had it in mind but not made clear. and to @MadeInGrimsby as well. Fair point well made.

Outside of Mumsnet I don't see any rift and I say that as an owner of two dogs.

Even then, anti-dog threads have only become fashionable on MN in the last couple of years.

Before that it was all P&C parking and BF versus formula feeding.

The dog moaning will be replaced by something else soon enough and in the meantime, real life will still be largely unaffected.

I reckon a large % of the dog threads are made up anyway! People know they get engagement and make shit up.

Yeah I agree.

It's like they literally just want a thread where a lot of people will agree with them, but a few will kick off.

I'd sooner go and do some housework if I was that bored lol.

I am seriously thinking of buying fake dog poo and leaving it in places like John Lewis. I hate that they let random dogs in.

Dog owner privilege. A form of middle-class privilege; possible even white privilege.

I really wouldn't take my dog to John Lewis. Not least because he sleeps all day after his morning walk. He doesn't need / want to go shopping!

Those are grim statistics 😢

I was bitten on the back by a dog as a child and had to have stitches and a rabies vaccination. I cried dearly because my lovely dress was ripped.

I understand that dogs bring a lot of joy to people, and all of my family and friends who have dogs do despair at other dog owners who have little control over their dogs - they are the problem.

I was recently bitten whilst jogging, big bruise on my leg. I now carry a walking stick when jogging.

If one person wants a dog there and the rest don’t then the dog doesn’t go even if that means the dog owner missing out. They can decide to leave the dog home alone for a few hours or stay home with the dog and miss out

For me, the ideal compromise would be people properly train their dogs so they never jump up at people and they sit quietly in public places like cafes and have complete recall and owners are considerate re toileting etc so that wherever dogs go, they are not a nuisance to others.

It's so very rare to have a dog kill a person. And it's very often a breed which is troublesome at best. The answer isn't to treat all dogs the same though.

Same with dog bites. Punishing all dogs / owners because of rogue ones really isn't the way forward. In the same way not all humans are punished for assaults / murders by other humans.

I'd be up for dog licences and compulsory puppy training.

Councils need to do more about dog poo fouling fines though. They'd more than make the cost of enforcement officers back if they went out on patrol, IMO. I can be found rummaging in nettles, thistles and under bushes for my dog's poo. Every owner should be the same.