Have you ever met someone who has no empathy?

[Wivern]

I was wondering about this today after I met up with a friend who meets this description but who I still value a lot because we have been friends for a long time. It made me wonder how many people are like this which we never realise unless they do something absolutely horrific and cruel. The latter are probably the ones that get noticed but I wondered about the ones who don’t because they just blend in and don’t commit crimes?

Me.

I’m autistic and really really struggle with emotions. I’ve learned to mask over the years so I can fake it to people’s faces to an extent - also, I’m weirdly much better at handling emergencies than I am long-term problems.

I understand people can get hurt if I say certain things but I don’t always understand why.

If you listen to people who describe themselves as empaths, it is usually what they're saying. Many autistic authors & speakers, in particular, are strongly attached to this concept of empathy.

From this thread alone:

• I am highly empathic... to a fault really. I often feel like I can feel people's pain
• I can experience intense empathy as if it’s me that’s experiencing the pain or had the thing happen to me
• I can’t see someone crying without crying myself. It feels like I’m in physical pain if I watch someone suffering
• if I upset somebody accidentally, I actually feel it inside my body, like a physical pain or ache
• I have bucket loads of empathy and just hearing about someone suffering has me in tears!
• I feel other people's feelings very acutely and it is torture at times
• I sometimes do feel the emotions as though it’s happened to me

These PPs weren't all saying exactly the same thing, but there's a common theme here (their pain is my pain) and they're all illustrative of this belief.

I love the endless variety in humanity! We are more similar to each other than different - but, hell, the differences can be wild.

Yeah. My boss. But when he’s being an insensitive dickhead I can tell him to fuck off.

@GarlicAnywhere Ah okay, so people who describe themselves as empaths tend to believe that. I’m always a bit suspicious of people describing themselves that way as it implies there’s some kind of superior way they’re experiencing things (and they're centering themselves “this terrible/brilliant thing happened to someone else so I’m going to tell you all about how I felt”)

So your point isn’t that there’s no such thing as empathy (how I initially interpreted it) more about people who say they are an ‘empath’ and you’re questioning that?

I think when I’ve been pondering the differences in my responses to others I’ve been wondering if the ones that elicit a more emotional response are the ones that touch on a deep fear of my own vs something that I don’t really relate to.

I’m also pondering if empathy/being an ‘empath’ only applies to negative/painful experiences. You don’t always hear people describing themselves that way after seeing someone who won the lottery on the news and feeling as though they’ve won it too. Although maybe someone receiving good news after a health scare or passing a wedding party having their photos taken can definitely evoke emotion, just not sure if it’s as if it’s happening to them too. Anyway, I’m just rambling now!

Yeah, @Scrimblescromble ... if I'd known neuropsychology was going to be a thing when I grew up, I'd have tried harder in my biology, maths & philosophy O-levels and gone that way! Secrets of the human mind, whoo-hoo!

Interesting!
I have tonnes of the first one. I try to relate to how the person is feeling and what is going through their head at the time, to try and find a relief or solution that can mitigate. And if I say I know how you feel or I cannot imagine how you feel, I flipping mean it. I do not feel it intensely while talking to the person, but I do feel it, watered down.
If I am fed up of someone, I give them a fake, completely lacking of any effort or feeling from me, second type of empathy.

But workplaces want only the second one, only. Apparently is better. But from me, it is as good as I give a shite how you feel LOL
It is really interesting how our brains work!

Said it before but I'm always wary of anyone that insists they are very empathetic or an empath. It can be a bit like how when someone insists that they're an honest person if you know what I mean.

I've always thought it was mostly about the sharing in people's joys a sorrows part of empathy. This has always seemed like an important part of a relationship to me. I also really hate being vulnerable around someone who comes across as completely lacking in empathy to my suffering.

Yes, and worryingly she’s training to be a psychotherapist. She’s learned to say all the right words, but with zero conviction, and not a flicker of actual concern in her eyes. Probably not helped by the fact her forehead doesn’t move. But goodness. Scarily unconcerned about anyone

Yes, is it empathy or sympathy? If she did the medical side well then it’s the important thing and her patients aren’t friends or relatives. Interesting.

Good point. And I'm so sorry to hear you've experienced rape.

I know some people who describe themselves as feeling what everyone else is feeling in a room, but actually they can often be wide off the mark and prone to creating atmospheres themselves. It can have the effect of making them the centre of attention in other people's crisis as well. It's not necessarily on the money or always helpful!

I definitely feel this intuitive emotion thing, if that is empathy. For example watching a group of old friends at a 60th birthday party dancing to a song from their youth I can feel filled with their joy to the point it will bring tears to my eyes. But that's a very straightforward example.

I think we should tread carefully with this 'empathy' in more complex situations.

my husband was a police inspector before he retired and had a similar attitude to all the shit he saw at work, which I’d say is a good thing. However if I’m ill or troubled or my daughter is going through anything he’s very affected.

You seem to have taken words and made up your own meanings.

Mirror neurons are just one aspect that has been studied. Social contagion is real. It is also a demonstrable fact some people have more empathy than others, and some have close to zero.

I would think having a father who you say is a diagnosed psychopath you would be more aware of all of this. There are visible results displaying the lack of brain circuits and areas when psychopaths are tested for empathy using fMRI.

Your classic sociopath.

We seem to be at cross purposes, @mulberrymilk. Entirely possible I haven't been clear; I couldn't sleep and have been getting insanely tired.

I can imagine it depends on the relationship. I think a good attempt at faking empathy could work in a work situation but not with a close relationship if that makes sense.

My mother

I don't think I have empathy really. Certainly I have to remind myself that when I'm getting on with stuff, other people might have some feelings that I have to take into account.

I socialise mainly because I like people - as in there are some people I enjoy the experience of, and so I know I have to put up with small talk and tea with them so I can have that. Plus it's also handy having people who can help out in an emergency - and this isn't one way - if I like you, then I'm happy to do whatever I can for you too - yes, this has caused issues in the past where I was taken advantage of before I realised.

But for example, I don't have feelings when a pet dies, I just have immediate acceptance, and so I have to 'put on' sympathy when someone else's pet dies. And I don't miss people. I'll enjoy seeing them again if it's been a while, but I don't feel any loss at them being gone.

I suppose I'm some kind of sociopath, but not a malicious one, just one that is happy enough on her own and doesn't really get people, or feel much (actually I wonder if anxiety is what burned the feelings away - constantly worrying when I was younger so now I just give up and don't even bother trying)

I’d argue that that’s not actually a bad trait for a therapist to have.

You do have to protect yourself and your own mental health. So you cannot bring your empathy into it and drain yourself emotionally. But if you are faking the sympathy to the point that is has a zero actual meaning to you or you cannot even bother to fake it, then that is surely a problem.
Think, there will be vulnerable people trusted into their hands. And there are far too many cases of further abuse by the effing therapist!

For me, as long as the client feels safe and can trust the person to listen and help them, I’m not sure whether there really needs to be any empathy.

Maybe it’s my autism but I actually find it quite patronising when medical professionals act too empathetic and as though they know what I’m dealing with. In my head I’m always thinking “oh, bollocks do you know how x feels to me” 😂

I do wonder sometimes about my (long gone) mother, who was incredibly sensitive, incredibly easily upset with regards to anything concerning herself, but seemingly unable to realise that other people could be sensitive and very easily upset, too.

When I once mentioned that someone else might be very upset too, she’d just say e.g. ‘But they (or you) are not like me. I can’t help it.’

She would often go into massive, days-long sulks about some tiny thing anyone ‘normal’ would have shrugged off.

I feel like some people almost make being “empathetic” their whole personality. I have a distant relative who regularly blathers on about being an empath on social media but what she really seems to mean is that she has an ability to make everything about her and how she feels.

It helps with emergencies for sure. I had to deal with a life or death situation when everyone else was falling apart (think finding someone at the bottom of the stairs barely breathing in a pool of blood) and I’ve never been so calm and matter of fact. I know people think I’m odd for it but it’s just the way I am.

Not odd at all! I think it’s a great quality to have - my dad was a medical doctor (retired now) and he was the same - super matter of act and calm but excellent in a crisis.

There is a difference between empathy and sympathy, though if you are ND you may not get it.
Lack of empathy is needed, in this case or with doctors, lack of sympathy.... or any other sort of moral compass.. not really, nope