Should we leave London after burnout, or stay for my husband's career?

[ChickenChitty]

Help me with my life dilemma.

DH and I have been together for 15 years, we are late 30s with 2 kids at primary school. I work in a stressful job in the City, requiring extremely long hours (60-70hr weeks, weekend work most weekends and most holidays too). DH is in a creative career - his passion. I earn c.6x what he does. He is self-employed so does more with the kids and more around the house (I’d say he does 60% of the childcare and maybe 70% of household tasks).

I nearly died earlier this year with a ruptured appendix that was missed and negligent medical care. It came off the back of a period of very intense work - about 9 months of hell. I’m mentally traumatised from that experience and burnt out generally, and the whole thing has made me reassess my life.

Ive suddenly got clarity that I don’t want to continue doing my job anymore and I don’t even know what I’m doing it for as London is so expensive our quality of life is not great. We have enough equity in our small London terraced house that we could move back to my home town (up north) and buy somewhere large and detached and lovely mortgage free, near much better schools for the kids and near my family. DH really doesn’t want to leave London as he loves it, and his work is here (his family is up north too but nowhere near mine). He would want to continue commuting to London if we moved, which would probably involve overnight stays and impact family life.

Im starting to feel a bit of resentment as I increasingly feel like I’m killing myself and sacrificing my quality of life so that DH can live his dreams. But I love him, am proud of what he does, and would feel awful to effectively force him to move (which we would need to do if I quit my job, as he could never pay the mortgage alone). I knew when we got married that this would be his career. I’ve thought of middle grounds like downsizing in London or moving to a commuter area if I took a pay cut, but that would feel like a much worse outcome for the kids, to leave everything they know for something materially worse, and/or both parents travelling more than we do now . I don’t know whether I’m being unfair in wanting to do this or not, or what the right balance is, so thoughts from other people would be welcome!

I can hear the exhaustion from the way you write. I’m sorry about what you have gone through in the last 18 months.

Quite understandably your way of thinking right now sounds a bit rigid, even catastrophizing (very typical for burnout I think). There is a way out of this and things can change very quickly once you start making decisions.

Just an example, but I moved cities three times before I turned 18. The first move was when I was 9 and my sister was 7. Honestly, we had made ourselves at home within a couple of months and I don’t remember being even slightly sad, let alone traumatized. The later moves where slightly harder (we were teenagers), but not in any way awful.

Personally, I would rather move when children are still young, much easier now than with teenagers. Saying that you would be moving them away from everything they have ever known is what you are feeling, not necessarily what they would feel at all. It’s also not strictly true. Their parents and sibling(s) would still be there and that’s the most important part.

It’s lovely that a five bed mortage free is an option. I hope you find your dream house, you certainly deserve to. Just as an option, have you considered if it would feel ok to first by something closer in size to what you have now but with a garden and invest the rest of the equity for a few years? Then possibly move to a larger house? The only reason I’m asking is that I think you need a break from feeling trapped by a job - any job for some stretch of time to really recover. Clearly, I don’t know what house proces are in your family’s town and what you could buy for say 400-500 k. All I’m suggesting is try to think of different timelines and routes to gials if / when you feel up to it.

Finally OP, I don’t know you, but I genuinely think you come off as smart, hard-working, decisive and actually quite brave. I really hope you feel better soon and find a solution that works for you and your family.💐

Or if you are on holiday -

I wonder what OP’s DH’s thoughts are on secondary schools? OP talks about her own background and upbringing and how she wants the best secondary education for her children - completely understandable! How involved is DH that he hasn’t taken on board what will happen at secondary level (quite apart from not addressing OP’s needs for recovery)? Of course we have no right to know but I’m wondering what DH’s background is - if, as a lot of posters think, he is classically trained, would he not be keen for the children to have opportunities too? Or if he had a bad start but still managed to achieve great things, has he not considered giving his children the best breadth of education possible like OP?
Maybe that’s why I imagined he worked at BRIT school - more self-made on his talent than classically trained.

OP, you have worked hard in a well-paying job that demands 70+ hour weeks from you. You have now built up £600k in equity by your late 30s. Go buy a house that enables you to have friends (and for your kids to have friends) to stay over and to have dinner round a big-enough table or BBQ in the garden, that is in the catchment area of good schools, that provides you with social and work opportunities and is close enough to an intercity station to make your DH's work trips feasible. Life is for living, living is about time with loved ones. Create a home in which you and your kids enoy spending time, that you all enjoy having friends to visit, that DH looks forward to coming back to. Take your time to find the place, wherever that may be in the UK, that feels like you can tick those boxes and then... do it.

You could always do things in stages rather than an all or nothing approach!
London house prices can change dramatically just walking 5 minutes down the road.
could you move within the school catchment area to free up some cash / reduce the mortgage? Could you move somewhere local that needs some work? That could also reduce the mortgage
That wouldn’t rule out a move up north further down the line
would finding a lovely nanny or housekeeper for a few hours a week give you a better quality of life?

I would explore sideways movements first you might find small things like an excellent home help or a sabbatical from work really help you get some breathing space

it is understandable that you would want to make bigger changes though after getting so ill and it must be hard seeing your partner so happy in their work and not want the same for the both of you.

Well, he's had it his way for years, surely it's your turn now?

@ChickenChitty I would stop seeing this as a choice and see the move as a necessity for your health.1

As someone who could have had your type of career but chose the regional one - I have never regretted it.

Apologies if this point has already been made. It may well be that the best thing for you now is to move north, but do think hard about the long term - once your children reach the beginning of their careers being able to live at home in London for a year or two could be priceless.

We live in one of the areas mentioned up thread, not in a hovel but not in a period terrace either. (Three bedrooms and a small garden office which I use when I work at home, for full disclosure.) We moved there precisely because the secondary schools were so good, and it's worked out well. I'm the higher earner, but nowhere near your salary (senior public sector). DH (creative industry, not well paid) has been part time since DD was born and is now about to retire. We had no help from family, but had about £500K equity in the zone 2 flat we sold to move here. We could in principle have had a much grander life in the north-west where my family lives, but my career options would have been much more constrained. DD has just done GCSEs, and we've discussed moving north and being mortgage free, but concluded we need to wait to see what she does for a career before we make any decisions.

This may not be any use to you - if you're burnt out and can't carry on, you may not really have a choice - but it might be a helpful indicator of how you might see things in a few years' time.

I’m not in London, but your job sounds like it pays similar to mine and has similar pressures.

I was a lot like you when my kids were in primary. What I’ve learned is that most men doing the same job have wives that either don’t work or have little part time jobs, so they pick up the majority of the home stuff. The men generally barely see their kids. We had two parents with big jobs and it just wasn’t sustainable. The burnout was real and the resentment nearly ended our marriage. Something has to change.

Secondly, contrary to popular belief it’s actually harder when they’re at secondary school. They might not need you to dress them and supervise teeth brushing etc, but they need you in other ways. In many ways they need you more. They need much more of your time just hanging out and connecting, as well as taxi services. Plus they go to bed later, so you lose that time in the evenings to catch up on work. It’s actually when mine went to secondary that I took a step back encore an easier job working from home. I realised that my eldest child was spending most evenings alone watching TV/ gaming while we worked and that made me miserable.

Lots of places in the north have commutes to London that aren’t much worse than commuter towns in the SE. Stockport/ Macclesfield for instance is under two hours to London, which is completely doable twice a week.

I think you need to talk to your DH about the options and lay it all on the table. You can’t go on like this, the resentment will eventually end your marriage even if it doesn’t destroy your health.

Have you identified the area of ‘the north’ that enables you to have a short commute to viable job opportunities, has the transport connections to London your DH needs to commute on a weekly basis and has the excellent non-selective state schools you are seeking? You aren’t happy with London secondary options available in more affordable areas. Have you looked in detail at the northern options. London and the SE has very strong state schools compared to many areas in the north.
If you are happy with the northern schools & area then bluntly it comes down to whether your DH is willing to engage in a very lengthy commute possibly involving overnight stays or change his job. If I was him i imagine I would prefer a cheaper area in London/SE, with a commute that doesn’t mean I lose so much time with my kids. However, it is what he will compromise on not me. You have to talk it out together. If he won’t discuss options - that is unreasonable. However, his compromises may be different to yours.

Hi OP I hope you are regaining your health and strength after your awful health scare.

Im very similar to you. Impoverished upbringing but educated well. Had a stressful, demanding and relentless career in London City. Two kids in secondary school but went through horrible divorce so no partner at home.

After divorce moved from busy, polluted, overcrowded London to the outskirts where it’s quiet, green, safer and peaceful. Don’t get me wrong I am London born and bred and I love it but didn’t love living there anymore with kids to raise.

Then suddenly fell critically ill and needed emergency surgery and more treatment. Life changed overnight. I am convinced stress made me unwell. I had been thinking for a
long time my life is too stressful and unsustainable.

The minute I woke up in intensive care I knew everything had to change. Slowly I have made big changes because nothing is more important than your health. You must be selfish and prioritise your heath even before killing yourself trying to find the best schools for
your kids. Your health comes before your husband’s career and if he is a good partner that will be a given. He seems like he is as he carries well re kids and home.

Stop doing all the heavy lifting. I refused a place for one of my children at a grammar school because they would need to leave the house at 6.40am and be home by 5.30pm to do the travelling. That’s not the childhood I wanted for them. We need to raise capable, self sufficient adults but also happy ones too. We should want this for ourselves.

Newham is not a nice place to live and raise kids regardless of some of the good schools. I know it well. But the ethos Brampton Manor instills in the children is imperative to their success. Instill that in your kids and they will be fine wherever they are.

I wonder if you could move nearer to your family and buy outright and whether you might still have enough left to buy a little rental property which could give the family a bit of passive income and a buffer? If that property needs a small mortgage perhaps that’s a more cost effective way.

Life is so very short and while you are a mum, wife, daughter, main breadwinner you are
also you with your own hopes, dreams and happiness. Prioritise yourself and your health. You are very important too.

That’s the rub, just because he’s a northerner doesn’t mean he will agree to move back.

It’s worth considering that you can get a 1600-1800 sq fr flat in a decent area of London for 800k. Which would majorly reduce the mortgage. Downside is service charges.

https://www.onthemarket.com/details/19644997/

https://www.onthemarket.com/details/18723266/

State schools:
Ashcroft technology academy
Burntwood School
Ark Academy
Tiffins

With children I'd prefer this

"4 bedroom detached house for sale in Church Lane, Adel, Leeds, LS16" https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/90732189#/?channel=RES_BUY

"4 bedroom detached house for sale in Dunstarn Gardens, Leeds, West Yorkshire, LS16" https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/90671661#/?channel=RES_BUY

Odd decor but lovely views

Interestingly, minus the garage/outbuildings/limited use area - those houses are actually the same square footage as the larger of the 2 London flats I linked. But with smaller rooms and lower ceilings.

And in terms of transport links, amenities and cultural activities there’s no comparison.

It sounds like you’re at the beginning of a decision and I’m not sure you’re going to be able to leap to a solution in one fell swoop. Which is probably what you, and I, would want to do because you sound like a problem solver.

I think you should step back from the solutions, and put the problem to him instead.

As far as I understand it, the problem is that you no longer have it in you to do your job, and you are worried about how you afford the family’s life, maintain the children’s education, see the children at least as much as you do now if not more, with finding a new job which will probably be less well paid. That might not be quite the right problem formulation. But I think you need to put the problem to him not the solution.

I would resign.

Rent out my London house which should generate £4-5k per month.

Rent in Home Counties / suburb - to see if it works for you. This allows your DH to be home every night.

Or as above rent up north to see if your DH commuting / staying away during the week is sustainable for you all emotionally and logistically as a family.

Do you want to be a SAHP - in the short term or long term? Or do you want a part time or full time regional job? Would you still be spinning plates with kids and teens all week and a job but totally on your own up north whilst DH is relaxing with his feet up all week after work in London flat share etc?

I think you need some serious time out to recover your mental and physical health before making multiple huge decisions.

The only decision it looks like you need to make right now is time out / sabbatical - minimum 6 months. Trust that life will unfold and next steps become clearer once your mind and body is out of crisis mode - you are probs swilling with adrenaline and cortisol due to the health trauma. Aim to settle and heal this first before any other commitments.

I'd take an Airbnb for house hunting. Get a feeling for the area. View properties. I wanted a big garden, trees, etc for the children. The house took time to renovate but the children thrived. Their primary school had 100 or so pupils. I don't regret it.

@OneOfEachPlease youve nailed the problem exactly.

Doing it in stages (as others have suggested) would be the right thing to do but it‘s tricky to do that with the kids in school - eg can’t really rent an Airbnb up north and try it out (and this summer is fully accounted for with holiday clubs etc) - but we do need to get a feel for different areas/options at some point.

So many good ideas and advice - can’t thank everyone enough for taking time to post.

OP look at Hayes School in Hayes, Bromley - you will get a proper house and an outstanding comp within good commuting distance for a reasonable price. Or Langley Park schools in Beckenham. Parts of Beckenham are quite creative vibe too, lots of musicians/artists live around there now - I take one of mine to a music lesson in Penge. The houses in Hayes aren’t much more expensive than what has been linked in Leeds. They get snapped up for that reason but it’s there. Have a look at the schools and see if that is what you are looking for in terms of vibe/attainment/progress 8.
I live more centrally but some of my friends moved out to these places and the schools are great it seems and their houses/gardens massive compared to what we get around my way. What would cost 2 million here now seems to be more like 850k there.

Yes, it’s funny isn’t it? People have in their minds that a great home for kids is a detached with a big garden to run around in, but for teens a great home is one that is close to good public transport and cultural and social activities. I live in a sort of a hybrid home in that it’s a house but a terrace and we have a small garden that is nice for sitting out but not a running around one, and we have transport within 5 mins walk that will take you anywhere in London your heart desires. (I always think that the litmus test of transport is whether you need to check the time of the next bus/train vs just going to the stop and knowing you’ll never have to wait more than 10 minutes.)
I love the European style of living in city apartments. That 4 bedder upthread has the feel of some homes I’ve spent time in France and Germany.

Those flats are beautiful but blimey, an 11k annual service charge is brutal!

My friend is paying an eye watering service charge for her mum's flat in a McCarthy stone complex. 🙈

Ouch.

I think this and the leasehold system probably both put a lot of people off flats.

Don’t forget you do actually get services* for your service charge. Houses and gardens cost quite a lot to run and maintain, but because those costs are not -aggregated and billed together they tend to go a bit under the radar.

*I do not mean utilities, I am aware those are for the individual tenants to pay.