Huge row with daughter home from university

[Missparentmisery]

My 20 year old daughter is home from uni. The first 2 weeks were ok because basically she was on holiday with friends. We are due to go away tomorrow but have just had an almighty row.

The way she talks to me is awful and is really upsetting especially as I give her money for uni every month, gave her cash for her holiday & basically try and do the best I can. As a family we suffer because we give her money & have nothing left.

My DH gives her money every month too which means we can’t afford to do stuff around the house like replace the kitchen or buy a new hoover. She said our kitchen was worse than a student house and laughed because the hoover is held together with sellotape even though I explained it’s because we have no spare cash.

The row started because she asked me a question and I replied with a bored fed up tone. She then shouted “watch your tone missy”. I told her not to speak to me like that and she said she’d speak to me how she wanted. I told her to treat me with respect she said why should she & it basically escalated from there.

Yes my tone wasn’t great but I told her I should be able to speak in whatever tone I want in my own home. She also picks me up on my facial expressions and tells me off if I look at her in the “wrong way”. Basically as long as I am never tired or depressed and speak in the “wrong” tone or look at her in the “wrong” way we get on ok.

Whenever we argue she uses the fact that I don’t have a dad to explain my “personality” says I need to go on medication, that I’m a hoarder (I’m not!) and basically rips me apart.

It’s upsetting and I don’t know how we will manage until she leaves for uni again in October. I have 2 other daughters who get upset by all the shouting and arguing.

I don’t want to have to keep taking it from her but if I don’t we argue and then get the silent treatment from her.

Her personality was like this before she went to uni so nothing is going to change.

Really don’t want to go on holiday tomorrow but I have spent money I don’t have and can’t disappoint the rest of my children by not going.

This definitely has merit.

My sister became a nightmare as soon as she went to grammar school and was mixing with far wealthier people. She was already obnoxious as a child but this escalated to a ridiculous degree. Mum and Dad simply didn't engage and when they realised she was stealing from them, they booted her out.

There was a vague warming years later when she was getting married and she wanted Dad to cough up but she took the piss over that too.

We are all decades on from that. I introduced her to a friend of mine and they married. He has a manor house and a farm. They are loaded and she is STILL moaning about her lot.

I think you have to give her a chance to become a decent human being and that will incur hard life lessons OP. She has been spoilt rotten though so she has a long way to fall. If she was a nice child, you have a chance. If she was like my sister, not so much.

Of course it is the problem.

My husband's teenage daughter was repeatedly rude to him and kept saying that he couldn't chuck her out as she was too young.

He called her bluff and she soon started to behave.

Some children and young adults need boundaries, most don't (my husband's sons were never rude to him) but some do. If they do not have boundaries then they will behave like the OP's daugher.

As lots of people have pointed out…

• it’s fairly normal behaviour at this developmental stage

• there are clearly quite a few factors that MIGHT be influencing the daughters behaviour - e.g. her mum has set out in the OP that she speaks very similarly to her; the daughters worry about hoarding / medication etc and seeming hyper-vigilant and alert to her Mums moods sounds more like anxiety than nastiness; and the daughter has a history of a serious, long illness in the lead up to her a levels.

Nobody is against boundaries - but there are lot more proportionate ways to set boundaries then threatening homelessness or making someone feel unwelcome in their family home. The OP has been very clear she doesn’t want to do that, so it’s not very helpful to keep saying ‘threaten to throw her out’. That’s very likely to do significantly more damage in the long term.

Of course your husband was right originally that his daughter was too young as a teenager to be threatened with homelessness. I hope it really has gone as smoothly as you think, and you haven’t caused serious harm to that relationship that will reveal itself once she’s a bit older and is able to leave home. Maybe the arrival of such a punitive step mother into her life was what upset her in the first place.

In light of updates all you can do is keep talking to her and say you need to find away to get along together this summer. Acknowledge it’s tricky for her when she’s been away but say it’s tricky for you too. I’d be clear how much financial pressure you are under and say you feel you are trying to do right thing supporting her financially but it means things like new kitchens are in back burner.
Financially I’d pay for uni rent but not give her spending money for summer.
Sitting around doing nothing isn’t helping.
I’d offer to help her look for a job. Get profile on local Facebook she’s available for babysitting or checking on pets etc. Ask on facebook of any jobs going locally.
Can she volunteer for anything.
Apply for everything. Suggest she gets bus to nearest a towns and cities and has a good look around for any adverts in windows or calls in on spec.

Book her in for an intensive driving course - she's got the summer to do it!

They will always be our children but to describe a 20 year old as a kid, which is basically a child, is beyond my comprehension. At that age they may have a lot to learn in life but they are definitely not kids. I notice it's more of an expression used nowadays by parents throughout the university years rather than in the past when mine attended. They could be 22/23 by the time they graduate yet many parents still refer to them as kids. This babies them & interferes with them growing up & relating to life in the adult world. Good advice in general though.

Me.

It's something I do anyway. I look at whatever I fancy and price all the options. Then choose whatever I want. I do it with cars, kitchens, furniture. Everything.

A family discussion follows and the decision is made. Our offspring has always known the value of money. We always pay cash rather than credit. Our family knows the reasons.

How do most people make major financial decisions?
Are their kids always excluded from knowing about family finances?
How does that work out then?

Oh? Does it mean kids grow up lazy and entitled, with no idea about money, and bad mouthing their parents?

Don't be silly. Don't your kids have any input into household decisions?
Don't you discuss financial planning with them?

Yeah but that’s when you’re actually going to buy one of the options. It’s a waste of time if the OP has no plans whatsoever to buy a new kitchen at the moment.

Yes but I don’t set out with the intention of there being an AH HA YOU IDIOT, DIDN’T THINK OF THAT, DID YOU moment.

She can afford it next year if daughter is contributing to household finances.
She could afford it this year if she wasnt paying daughter every month.
Remember, the present kitchen isn't good enough for little miss bad mouth.

OK. Lol. Maybe I phrased that badly. I would have a more sensitive conversation than that.

My offspring have always known what our next major purchase was. Theyre now old enough to advise/critise our choices.

Never had a bad mouthed one that thought I was a bottomless pot of money. Its easier to correct an 8 year old that steps out of line than a 20 year old.

Ok. I think it’s a bit rich of you to be calling her ‘little miss bad mouth’ when you’re advocating her parent takes such a hard line on being called ‘missy’. Are you going to make yourself homeless now?

Sorry, that was a bit rude of me @HarshbutTrue2 … I’m not sure you are on of the throw her out brigade!

I just think there’s something in the way her mother describes speaking to her… like there’s a bit of a culture of disrespect and speaking in whatever tone you like in the household!

I was a single mum so I made all financial decisions. I was fortunate that my kids never felt entitled to things so we never had conflicts in that area. Even as young adults they are always very appreciative of any financial or parental help from me.

I have never been spoken to or treated in the way OP’s dd does and both of mine have been to uni (one still there).

Entitled is the operative word here. Sadly despite the financial crisis even now there are still children who will grow up feeling the world owes them a living. An example is birthday parties becoming all about the child being put on a massive pedastol every 12 months with a competition amongst parents to provide the biggest & best. This over indulgence certainly doesn't help instliing in children from a young age that money doesn't grow on trees.

Whilst a good idea they cost a few thousand and the dd isn’t working so can’t pay and Op is strap for cash (struggling to pay required contribution to loan) plus had 3 children so what do for one need to do for other two.

Money doesn’t grow on trees was the mantra when I was growing up! 😁 I probably brought that influence with me into my own parenting, although I didn’t say no as much as my own parents did I didn’t over indulge either.

Even just a couple of days ago my son at uni sent me a text saying thank you with heart emojis because I treated him to some new shoes that he was fully prepared to buy for himself. It was a spontaneous present as he’s worked very hard this past year. I gave my other son a little bit of money to buy some food shopping as he and his gf have had a tough year financially and again his text was also full of thank you’s and heart emojis. I love my kids very much but I’ve never put them on pedestals or indulged any sense of entitlement, starting from a young age.

Very sick of some posters saying I deserve to be spoken to like that because there is a “culture of disrespect” and I speak to my DD badly so what do I expect. Honestly 🤦🏻‍♀️

To clarify for what feels like the umpteenth time the row started because DD kept going on and on and on about what was for dinner. Bear in mind at uni she cooks her own meals 7 days a week. I’d been working most of the day, was tired and just generally bored of thinking about people’s stomachs ALL the time. I replied in a bored tone that I didn’t know, yes a bored tone.

There was no shouting no swearing, nothing awful was said. But apparently according to some posters I shouldn’t dare to talk in a bored tone, ever!

To the posters who gave sensible advice Thankyou. I am hoping it is just a period of adjustment for DD. She knows she needs to get a job. She knows she needs to be less rude.

I think people ARE trying to be helpful, because you asked us what you could do to change what’s happening.

If you’re not even willing to consider changing your behavior then I think it’s unlikely you will get her to change hers.

I quoted your initial post further up thread but I’ll do it again:

‘I told her not to speak to me like that and she said she’d speak to me how she wanted […] I told her I should be able to speak in whatever tone I wanted in my own home’.

Can you just not see that your behaviour is exactly the same? You’re modelling it.

Nobody has said you deserve it. I don’t think you deserve it - it sounds really tough on you and the whole family. I just think if you want to get a different result, you’re going to have to change SOMETHING.

On occasion when asked what was for dinner I have answered 'a surprise, to you and to me!"....when I had no idea and was allergic to the question, as provider of meals 7 days a week.

Would that be a reason for my children to be rude towards me?
Absolutely not.

You 100% have my sympathy OP.
Mind yourself.
Perhaps you need to down tools for a bit.
It tends to concentrate minds in this house when this particular appliance ceases to function!

Example of what I mean:

you: snap at her because you’ve been at work all day and you’re tired

her: don’t take that tone with me missy

you: I’ll take whatever tone I like in my own home.

….. everything escalates! What can you possibly expect her to say in that moment to de-escalate the situation?

OR

you: snap at her because you’re tired (fair enough, nobody’s perfect)

her: don’t you take that tone with me missy

you: sorry, I’m really tired after a day at work - I didn’t mean to snap. What would you be cooking for your tea today if you were at uni?

look, maybe it’s not fair. But you’re the parent, and you’re the one desperate for change - I appreciate it’s not as as easy to hear as the posters saying ‘poor you, your daughter is spoilt / entitled etc), but at least it has a small chance of making things different.

Poor OP is not allowed to feel bored and upset now. Just a drudge who continually cooks meals after a hard day's work [in a kitchen not up to princess's standards] with a big kind smile on her face.

BTW. How much does a new hoover cost? I think my last one was about £300. Or 3 weeks pocket money.

She’s allowed to feel bored and upset - sure. But she wants something to change, and I’m suggesting something she could try changing to get a different result. What do you think she should do to change her daughters responses to her?

If my kid was angry for years, I’d want to know WHY. I’d want to think about my behaviour; the family dynamic; whether the experience of a long serious illness before her a levels was in play; why she was hyper vigilant about me being tired or depressed (is it because I snap when I’m tired) etc.

Is the advice ‘proceed with curioisity’ and ‘you can’t change her behaviour immediately, but you can change your own’ really so controversial?

She's not a teen