Huge row with daughter home from university

[Missparentmisery]

My 20 year old daughter is home from uni. The first 2 weeks were ok because basically she was on holiday with friends. We are due to go away tomorrow but have just had an almighty row.

The way she talks to me is awful and is really upsetting especially as I give her money for uni every month, gave her cash for her holiday & basically try and do the best I can. As a family we suffer because we give her money & have nothing left.

My DH gives her money every month too which means we can’t afford to do stuff around the house like replace the kitchen or buy a new hoover. She said our kitchen was worse than a student house and laughed because the hoover is held together with sellotape even though I explained it’s because we have no spare cash.

The row started because she asked me a question and I replied with a bored fed up tone. She then shouted “watch your tone missy”. I told her not to speak to me like that and she said she’d speak to me how she wanted. I told her to treat me with respect she said why should she & it basically escalated from there.

Yes my tone wasn’t great but I told her I should be able to speak in whatever tone I want in my own home. She also picks me up on my facial expressions and tells me off if I look at her in the “wrong way”. Basically as long as I am never tired or depressed and speak in the “wrong” tone or look at her in the “wrong” way we get on ok.

Whenever we argue she uses the fact that I don’t have a dad to explain my “personality” says I need to go on medication, that I’m a hoarder (I’m not!) and basically rips me apart.

It’s upsetting and I don’t know how we will manage until she leaves for uni again in October. I have 2 other daughters who get upset by all the shouting and arguing.

I don’t want to have to keep taking it from her but if I don’t we argue and then get the silent treatment from her.

Her personality was like this before she went to uni so nothing is going to change.

Really don’t want to go on holiday tomorrow but I have spent money I don’t have and can’t disappoint the rest of my children by not going.

Does she truly understand the financial restraints you have and how much maintenance she is getting? I wonder if she could get a quote for a new kitchen with you and then work out the finances and see the link between supporting her and why you haven't got enough money. I don't think any kid should feel guilty about existing if their parents are struggling financially but i do think she needs to know that you are constantly making choices and constantly choosing her, for example her holiday v a new vacuum cleaner, weekly maintenance for 3 years v saving for a new kitchen etc. Many parents shield their adult kids from the realities of budgeting. Also as an aside I don't think anyone who isn't working should be going on holiday. If she can't get employment then she could be 'earning' holiday money in doing jobs around the house (repainting a kitchen perhaps..)

@Minasama
Very well said
I agree with you but I'd go one further and state one more nasty comment
Equates to no money whatsoever
But I think, and I'm hoping I may be wrong that that girl to me seems like a true unpleasant type anyways

Lots of posters have asked if DD is the first in our family to go to uni and the answer is no. Both her dad and I went. My DH has a masters and I have a phd so we are very familiar with uni,

Maybe this is part of the problem. All our DDs have grown up/are growing up knowing they are expected to go to uni. We are a very academic family and the schools they attend focus only on university really. Sometimes I wish we’d consider an apprenticeship or other options for DD but we didn’t and here we are.

DD did try to get a job but she was very ill for a long time and by the time she recovered she was doing A Levels and despite trying hard always got rejected. But yes I have told her repeatedly it’s a numbers game and she just needs to keep trying. There are some care jobs around here but she has shown me the adverts and they require a driving license which she doesn’t have.

It’s exhausting constantly picking her up on her rudeness. I can’t cut off her money she needs it for uni, I won’t chuck her out, she’s my daughter, so realistically what else can I say or do to stop her treating me so badly?

Some posters have said she speaks to me the way she does because she learnt it at a young age by witnessing it at home. Absolutely not true. All 3 DDs have only known love and stability. It’s actually very depressing because I genuinely feel the way she talks to me is totally unwarranted.

Is she a bit depressed if she’s not working and has no structure to her day? Lots of teens are very unpleasant if they’re struggling with their mental health and not working can be tough.

This is really common in year one when they go away and then come back and try and establish themselves, I’ve been through this a few times - don’t react - set boundaries but don’t escalate with shouting back . On holiday get up and say you need some space but don’t respond - ask your DH to back you - keep calm- they’re not adults really yet but you are and it’s your job to steer the ship through these years but hold on to
the them - it’s hard . The numerous times of me counting the days to them coming only to be snapped and eye rolled means I can fully empathise . Don’t react ! Also don’t get too drunk on holiday and let the wheels come off your reactions !

For those posters who say her DD talks to her this way bc shes allowed it’s not true - it’s a part of their evolution into adulthood that they are trying to assert themselves as separate adult but they don’t do it in a calm and kind way . It’s called over correcting. Luckily my DH was doing a psychology masters the second time I felt like a human punch bag and I realised this wasn’t the kids or me this was a very painful transitional phase that always happens - I then asked around and everyone had the same

Hard as it seems I would be inclined to totally ignore her when she kicks off at you. I'd say something like I'm sorry you feel like that, I hope you are ok. Is there anything you would like to speak to me about. I hate to think I'm upsetting you but I can assure you it's not intentional. It wouldn't be everyone's idea of how to handle her moods but I would give it a try. I wouldn't argue back or add fuel to the fire. One other thought. Is it possible she suffers from pre menstrual syndrome or the worst version of it. I can't remember the name of it but it's another possibility to consider.

There is a difference between all the behaviour that is normal as part of growing up and an entitled brat with an attitude problem. Sounds like OP needs to actually parent, sounds like you have already handed the power over and there is no respect and DD knows it.

Is ‘very ill for a long time’ related here? Did she miss out on some teenage independence etc? Might that be related to some depression / anger… long illness in childhood / early adulthood at a formative time can be fairly traumatic, especially if it was frightening for her.

Im sure she’s had a stable, loving home, but you did begin this thread defending your right to speak to anyone exactly how you wanted in your own home. I’m not suggesting you’ve done anything terrible, but if you’ve been consistently a bit rude or snappy or spoken to her in a bored voice, then you HAVE modelled that as the way families communicate with each other. I’m only bringing it up because it’s something you have the power to change, quickly. Maybe in time, her behaviour will start to change too.

From your original post: I told her not to speak to me like that and she said she’d speak to me how she wanted […] I told her I should be able to speak in whatever way I wanted in my own home.

Can you honestly not see what people mean about you having modelled some of this behaviour?

Maybe you could get her to accompany you on a kitchen shopping trip. She can help to choose the kitchen. Visit some posh kitchens that you know that you won't be able to afford, as well as mid range and even cheap kitchens.

Get her input, pick up all the brochures. Let her choose the one she wants. Let her choose all the jazzy extras.

Now for the fun part. Sit down and work out the cost. How much is this damn kitchen going to cost? Show her what your family income is and where it is going. Ask her which expenditure she suggests that you should cut back on in order to pay for this dream kitchen?

I would then take this a step further. You can point out future costings - you still have 2 children to put through university. How much per month is that going to cost?

Then, ask what her plans are after she leaves uni next year? I think we know the answer to that one. Tell her that you can't afford to fund a masters. She will have to do that at a later date and self fund it. If she is going to return home to live she will have to contribute towards the household expenditure. Oh and don't forget the 9% that she will be contributing towards her student loan. You need to be able to give her siblings the advantages that you gave her.

Then, explore ways in which this kitchen can be paid for. Look at different types of payment plans, including interest free, and compare the payments and what can be afforded. Oh dear, maybe you can't afford the top of the range kitchen with all the added extras.

Then, suggest that her monthly payment to the household budget should be equal to the monthly cost of the new kitchen. I wish I could be a fly on the wall during this conversation.

If she objects, say you will help her to find somewhere where she can live independently and pay her own bills. You can help her to cost all this out. She will need to save for a deposit on her dream residence - together with state of the art kitchen.
This is called financial education. It is far more useful in life than a university education.

Is that how you actually parent? With ‘fun’ being a series of ‘gotcha’ moments?

The OP is looking for ways to genuinely improve her relationship with her daughter.

@Missparentmisery Was she confined to home a lot when she was ill for a long time? Just wondering if being back there brings up some feelings for her? I used to feel claustrophobic returning home from uni (different reasons - step parents etc!) but I wonder if that could be worth exploring?

Who on earth would be arsed to do all that?

I actually think it's a very good idea. A big life lesson for a clueless young woman.

The problem is that she knows that you would never chuck her out and so she knows she can behave how she wants.

I knew with my parents that if I ever that rude then they would chuck me out.

Your daughter needs to know that there is a limit beyond which her behaviour is unacceptable.

Is she clueless though? The OP said she was very ill for a very long time. I think all the posts about her being spoilt and needing a taste of the real world might be missing that? It sounds like she’s had some very ‘real’ and probably frightening experiences at a young age.

Young people feeling secure and that their parents aren’t going to reject them or make them homeless is not ‘the problem’. This feels like it’s skipped DECADES of research.

As several have suggested you can reduce the money you give her do she is less comfortable.

Its a difficult situation OP but honestly get yourself a new hoover and a big glass of wine 🍷 💐

You’re still funding her why exactly? You’re being a doormat. She’s an adult and she should be standing on her own two feet. Stop the monthly allowance and tell her to get a job like most students.

It’s the holidays and she’s staying with you. She doesn’t need money - she’s being fed and looked after. I wouldn’t be subbing her social life. I know she’s tried to find a job but there’s nothing more motivating than having no money!!

On hols take yourself off when you need to - if asked why “I need a break, DD, I love you but this has been quite challenging”

If she’s having nicer moments on hols take her off by yourselves for a cocktail or something. She thinks she’s an adult but she’s not really. Manage her like you would a kid - rewards for good behaviour (treats and attention) consequences for poor behaviour (detach, focus on the other kids, don’t suggest treats or nice experiences, suggest she goes to her room / sunlounger to read and get some space).

I also would get a new hoover and when she inevitably asks for £50 to go and see her mates or to buy toiletries “sorry I spent it on the Hoover, love. You can use that shampoo / moisturiser I bought from B&M if you need to.”

I am not yet at this stage, so take this with a pinch of salt, but I would say three things:

1. it really is just her age, she’s not a rude person or broken - she’s just got the selfish brain of a 20 year old. Many kids unbearable at this age, some aren’t. Maturation isn’t linear.
2. what can you do about it? Just be much, much less available to her. Be out a lot, go and do you own thing: don’t ask her what she wants for dinner, expect her to make her own.
3. remember she’s finding it difficult tough too- that’s probably why she’s so snippy. She probably won’t come home next summer (I didn’t after the first year) so try to find moments of connection while she’s home

I really agree with the being less available suggestion.

She sees you as dependable mum, always there to take the flack. There doesn’t need to be anything confrontational or passive aggressive, just take yourself off and do your own thing, nice and breezy with it. It’s like the animal world when the parent makes themselves less available to their grown brood, not out of coldness but for their survival in their new grown up world.