To want a society where we just pay for ourselves

[LettingTheBadThingsGo]

Okay this is going to get some backs up but it's also how I feel so..
I wish we could just live in a society where we all just pay for ourselves.
So you want to have children - you pay for it all yourself. No benefits of any kind.
You want to see a GP - You pay a fee and get the service
You need the police - You pay a fee and get the service
You want education for your kids - you pay for it and get to choose where to send them

Nobody gets a pension or any benefits. However we all know this and as such we pay no tax/NI and save for ourselves.

Obviously there would have to be a phased input over a large number of years (like 30)

I want to know that if I need the police I can get them here in 5 mins. If I need an ambulance I want to know I can get it here in 5 mins. I don't want to not have these services because there is a rubbish 'free' service because there is not enough being allocated to them because it's all being spent on things I disagree with (welfare, council houses)

This would make everyone responsible for themselves. Those who work hard would be better off. Those who don't work will be worse off. Seems fair to me.

Everyone would save from day 1 in case they become ill or disabled and need to support themselves or have a disabled child (although they could choose not to have children in the first place).

I find it very weird that we live in a capitalist society where so many people are being supported by welfare. To me that is the opposite of a capitalist society.

Obviously there are some things that could never be allocated to each person such as defence of the country. There would have to still be a 'country charge' to every person to cover things that just could not be split. Street lighting would probably have to come under this as well. However roads could be covered by a charge to each person based on their mileage each year.

Yes it would take lots of thought and as I said would have to be implemented over a large number of years. However this would lead to a more productive society as well as better services. Obviously on the basis of a thread I haven't thought everything out but hopefully you all get the idea.

Anybody who didn't want to live like that could leave of course and live somewhere else.

So anyone else agree - no tax or ni - save and pay for yourself. Just pay a 'country charge' to cover things that can't be allocated like defence of country. Everything else is private (healthcare, police, pensions) and you save for it all yourself.

The only people who I can imagine not wanting this is those that live on the hard work of others ie life time welfare claimants. For everyone else surely they would be better off.

Ooft this will not end well for you OP.

The US is society that follows a version of this philosophy. Obvs it’s not possible for everything that’s why not everything is privatised there.

What if you are born disabled and cannot work? Is there something seriously wrong with you? Go and live in India and see the wealth disparity there. That seems to be a society you aspire to

You mention you went to uni and have worked hard all your life. I doubt you would have the same views if perhaps you came out of the care system as a child with no education, no money and no one to help you navigate life. “There but the grace of God go I…” springs to mind. I think your views come from a very privileged position and you are very ignorant of people in difficult situations.

And people like this are allowed to vote…. The mind boggles

Now that really is a scary thought.

Jesus Fuck. Hang your head in shame because you're a disgrace.

So there would be no social mobility then? As you are suggesting that only those whose parents can afford to pay for them to study medicine, law, engineering etc. would attain these higher salaries. Social mobility is good for society and, on a personal level, I would prefer a doctor who was bright, compassionate and dedicated as opposed to one whose only got in to study medicine because their parents could pay for them to do so.

Perhaps you should start.

We tried that. It was called Britain pre-1908. We had social reforms for a reason.

Stripping away all the other, more complex considerations surrounding your modest proposal and going right back to brass tacks, what about someone who - to put it simply - isn’t intelligent at all. They have a low IQ but remain pleasant, cheerful, eager to contribute to society and they work full time.

Although they would dearly love to achieve more, with all the will in the world, they simply can’t access anything more than the minimum wage - which they do, enthusiastically putting in 40 hours work a week.

This sort of money leaves nothing for the retirement or emergency the state will no longer help with.

@op,if you had worked 40 hours p/week, for many years, on £13.50 per hour, I think you would not have suggested this.

It really doesn't. I know the UK thinks it does but it doesn't. There is free k-12 public education. Healthcare is subsidised for many through the medicare, medicaid and VA system. there are food stamp programmes, housing programmes etc. It isn't ideal but US society is nothing like that aspired to by the OP.

Finance and economics are not the same discipline (I have a degree in both). There is enough overlap however that it's fairly alarming you were allowed near any sort of financial career

Wow, I’m really not sure what happens to someone to have such a selfish mindset. Blaming the poorest and least fortunate in society is just baffling. Divide and rule has taken over and it’s worrying. How anyone can seriously think a child shouldn’t get treatment if their parent didn’t save enough? And if the parents die, who looks after the kids? I honestly can’t believe this isn’t an effort to troll and it’s worked. Nobody could be this insane.

lol!

You don't know what the pp means about Dunning-Kruger, do you 😂

thats what happened in medieval times,

You can semi get this if you go to America - that would be my recommendation.
I think South Africa operates along the same lines as well.
What you have to deal with is the fallout where people haven’t got the means to pay for what they need - people with half their face missing and necrotising tissue evident sat on the street because they can’t afford healthcare; gangs taking over people’s homes because they can’t afford police presence; energy off for a few hours every other day, water off for a few hours on the days in between because payment systems aren’t adequate to build the right capacity.
Personally I wouldn’t find that a good way to live but I’d certainly recommend giving it a try.

Tell me you come from a place of privilege without telling me you come from a place of privilege!!!

Maybe leave this country and set up your own country operating like this (you can take the other people who would like this sort of thing, Farage and his ilk). Please do let us know how it goes!

Only fee payers get any kind of policing or schooling.

This is the most ridiculous, laughable, worthless view I've seen on here all week, and that includes the guy who mansplained Arnold Rimmer to us.

@LettingTheBadThingsGo You’re 19 yrs old so a legal adult, you’ve been in paid work for two weeks and you break your leg. Who is paying the medical bills?

This.

What about kids? No one chooses the family they are born into. Should a child have no opportunity or protection in life just because they have reckless parents?
What you are suggesting is to go back to dickensian times where your luck in terms of who you are born to will dictate your very survival.

Try living in Scotland. You would love it 😂