To want a society where we just pay for ourselves

[LettingTheBadThingsGo]

Okay this is going to get some backs up but it's also how I feel so..
I wish we could just live in a society where we all just pay for ourselves.
So you want to have children - you pay for it all yourself. No benefits of any kind.
You want to see a GP - You pay a fee and get the service
You need the police - You pay a fee and get the service
You want education for your kids - you pay for it and get to choose where to send them

Nobody gets a pension or any benefits. However we all know this and as such we pay no tax/NI and save for ourselves.

Obviously there would have to be a phased input over a large number of years (like 30)

I want to know that if I need the police I can get them here in 5 mins. If I need an ambulance I want to know I can get it here in 5 mins. I don't want to not have these services because there is a rubbish 'free' service because there is not enough being allocated to them because it's all being spent on things I disagree with (welfare, council houses)

This would make everyone responsible for themselves. Those who work hard would be better off. Those who don't work will be worse off. Seems fair to me.

Everyone would save from day 1 in case they become ill or disabled and need to support themselves or have a disabled child (although they could choose not to have children in the first place).

I find it very weird that we live in a capitalist society where so many people are being supported by welfare. To me that is the opposite of a capitalist society.

Obviously there are some things that could never be allocated to each person such as defence of the country. There would have to still be a 'country charge' to every person to cover things that just could not be split. Street lighting would probably have to come under this as well. However roads could be covered by a charge to each person based on their mileage each year.

Yes it would take lots of thought and as I said would have to be implemented over a large number of years. However this would lead to a more productive society as well as better services. Obviously on the basis of a thread I haven't thought everything out but hopefully you all get the idea.

Anybody who didn't want to live like that could leave of course and live somewhere else.

So anyone else agree - no tax or ni - save and pay for yourself. Just pay a 'country charge' to cover things that can't be allocated like defence of country. Everything else is private (healthcare, police, pensions) and you save for it all yourself.

The only people who I can imagine not wanting this is those that live on the hard work of others ie life time welfare claimants. For everyone else surely they would be better off.

The aim of the thread is should adults pay for themselves? I honestly can't see why this answer is no

I don't think there is much honesty at play here. Have fun OP!

maybe you should?

I don't know what a goody box is so you'll have to explain that to me.

I don't believe I am stupid. Went to uni over 35 years ago. Did more qualifications after. Worked all my life paying high band taxes.

I simply see an awful situation in this country where lots of people think they are entitled to not work or pay for themselves and in turn get lots of stuff free. The stuff is not free. Somebody, somewhere is paying for it.

By all means disagree with me but please say why it's daft to expect adults to well be adults really.

So .. you want to live in Victorian Britain? Maybe do some research on how that turned out for people.

I disagree with war, but I still have to pay to fund it. That’s how living in a society works.

What if you or your husband become disabled? You could go from having a nice life to essentially living on the street. And education- if we don’t educate people, who do you think will do all the jobs?

You can have a lot of what you ask for now- pay privately.

What if you were, say, in a bad accident that left you paralysed and unable to work or care for yourself, or you got sick and had to stop working.

It's easy to look down from your ivory tower when life has been easy for you. But the reality is we are not in control of much of our lives.

Went to uni over 35 years ago? When it was free?

Could you have afforded to pay for it yourself?

The thing is OP, you could pretty much operate like that now by moving to the US. There's nothing stopping you

if you are not going to post your real views and why you think like that then why bother.

Hell no.

Let’s bring back the Workhouse shall we? Just for the disabled and poor .
surely this would make crime skyrocket because a lot more people would just steal what they want or need .
Bonkers .

If parents can’t afford to educate their kids, how do you think they’ll get good enough jobs to afford to save incase they got disabled or ill?

So who works in the supermarkets, or care homes, restaurants etc for minimum wage, when everyone is training to be drs so they can afford to ring the police when their house is getting burgled. Your ridiculous

If you are not going to actually respond to people who disagree with you then why bother with the thread

Op do you know that working people can claim benefits too? People whose job alone doesn't pay them enough to afford even a minimum standard of living.

yes you are right and as we are seeing most of the wealthy here are already leaving.

Right, well since your post makes it quite clear you’re not working now, even if you did work for a long time…

You’re not paying for their “free stuff.” Your tax contributions have been and gone.

If you’re claiming a pension, we’re actually paying that.

I’ll grant you your “hard worker round of applause,” but unless you’re currently a net contributor paying for both yourself and the plebeians, maybe either mind your own business or bugger off to America to live in your personal utopia.

Ok. I'll give you a challenge. Every time you meet and talk with someone engaged in front line public services ask them if they believe their organisation is efficient and well managed.

Can anyone for instance who has regular engagement with the NHS put their hand on their heart and say they believe it is an efficient and well managed service.

A bit more niche but defence procurement. Unbelievably inefficient. No one who knows that world could defend it as a model of efficiency.

Keeping on paying perpetuates inefficiency.

I've worked my whole life fairly middle of the road edging towards right wing I've been self employed and worked my arse off. I was a single mum raised 2 kids whilst building a business I now own a couple of properties and am in my 60s retired with two professional adult DC earning 60 to100k a year and I think you are an absolute buffoon who doesn't have a clue tbh edit the tax we pay as a family is fucking eye watering and no excuse for the shit you're spouting

Are you ok? Mentally? This sounds like some dystopian horror film, but you’re day dreaming it as some kind of preferred reality? Who has hurt you?

No, data does not support 'most' of the wealthy are leaving

Where did you hear this, GB news?

So when are you leaving? There's your utopia just sitting there.

Honestly?

I am quite happy paying my share into the community pot so help is there for those that need it.

it will also be there if I ever need it. We are only ever one accident or heart attack away from poverty.

i also believe privatised medicine is unethical. Treatment should be risk/benefit based, not if you can pay for it. Many private providers will treat you if you pay, even if it will worsen your health.

how would the police work anyway? If a man is beating his wife and sexually abusing his kids, who pays to hold him to account?

The OP may live in a fantasy world. However it is an indisputable fact that some groups use less but pay more for the privilege. ONS statistics show that single-person households make up approximately 29.5% of all households in the UK, The way in which single childfree people (the least selfish group in society) subsidise families via council tax is a disgrace.

So how much do you think people would need to earn to pay for everything themselves then and for their children?

So you have two people, same age, same prospects, same job, both hale and hearty. Person A carries on with life, paying their way as you describe. Person B gets cancer. They are put on chemo. Chemo leads to sepsis. Person B survives both but is left a shell of the person they were before and is no longer able to work. Person B does everything they can to improve their health to get back to the person they were before, all the while knowing this is impossible because the chemo has caused them to get neuropathy and they can no longer feel their feet properly which means they can no longer drive. Then they have a stroke which leaves them blind in one eye and with no control over their left hand. Their mobility continues to decline. All the while Person A just carries on as before, paying their way, while Person B, through no fault of their own, can never work again and needs carers just to manage basic life.

So in your world Person B, who is no longer able to work due to ill health through no fault of their own, and therefore cannot earn money, should just be left to die? To fend for themselves?

By the way, Person B is my family member, a real person without a lazy bone in their body, who never complains but tries to make the best of the shit they have been handed - none of that is invented.