Labour isn't Working - Thread 36

[Nuthatch26]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government 💙

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5544016-labour-isnt-working-thread-35?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

😂😂😂

Haha yeh tough times if you can’t even say

Or even worse, bland LibDems?

At least with the Greens there is some sort of opinion, misguided though it might be.

Oh yes. I'm not reporting anything. Happy for them to make themselves look rather daft!

It's really cringeworthy. 😬

Farage, on watch.

Statement at 2pm.

I'm actually not against changing the indexation mechanism for the state pension - so long as it continues to genuinely track inflation.

We've seen how the triple lock ratchets, as pay rises typically lag the inflation rise by at least a year - so the state pension doubles up the inflationary increases. That was deliberate - to increase the pension over time- but it isn't sustainable forever.

If we no longer want to deliberately increase the state pension in real terms, it would make sense to flatten the increases over eg 5 years - ie every year you increase the pension by the average of 1/5 inflation or 1/5 average salary change. It does mean the pension lags inflation a bit, but over time it's stable.

Our state pension is now reasonably similar to the non-contributory pillars of most European countries' state pensions. And that's effectively what our state pension is - since it's a flat pension and NI stamps are awarded not only for work but also for being on benefits and SAH parenting.

Other countries often additionally have a contribution-based pillar, where you get out in proportion to what you paid in. They effectively behave like our workplace pensions, just administered by the state. We do need to improve workplace pension take-up. Perhaps by making personal/workplace pension contributions mandatory at a given % of income. The UK pension system actually gives us much more freedom to choose than many other countries (a real UK strength) - but unfortunately too many people choose not to contribute enough, which isn't sustainable when the state has to pick up the slack in their later life.

What I think absolutely can't happen is abruptly making the state pension means-tested. I genuinely think that would bring about the collapse of the social/welfare model in the UK.

What I fear would be possible - but utterly morally bankrupt - would be to stop indexing the state pension against inflation, which would effectively make it means tested over a few decades (down to £2-3k per year equivalent in about 40 years). I think that would bring about very harmful behaviour change, but not immediate system collapse.

Wonder what the socialists will do...

Waiting @CotswoldCornucopia

The LDs are really confused at the moment, as they're struggling to square the Supreme Court / men can be women policy struggle!

The post sounded like he was stepping down but I guess we’ll find out either way pretty soon.

I think that employers should be made to contribute more than the current minimum of 3% if they want to make workplace pensions more appealing / mandatory.

I doubt any party would go to means testing at the drop of a hat. You could give notice of it though. I'm not sure why it would disincentivise saving into a workplace pension, as surely it's better to be as well off as possible in retirement? Why would you want to be limited to the meagre state pension when you could save more / extra yourself? I've seen that argument loads on here though.

As for Farage's statement? Interesting indeed!

Yep.

If Reform’s numbers subsequently barely register a beat, it will prove a fairly damning indictment on this Labour government.

Bling that's a swing I didn't expect to see.

Yep just heard on news. I've always said Farage did not want to be PM. He thought I think that Lowe would do it. Lowe became a loose cannon so was tossed aside. Big mistake because he went rogue.

I've no idea who has the charisma to carry the party forward.

Reform’s core could just carry on, as if.

Personally, my hope is that we see a swing to Kemi.

If you want employers to pay more for private pensions, then reduce the NI payments, that get pissed up a wall, transfer the contributions to pensions.

Let's be brutally honest it's pension holders that are heavy on the states purse they keep telling us

There is no Reform without Farage. The party was always an expression of him and nothing else.

I also hope the Tories benefit from this. But I think we’d have to expect an increasing Labour vote too. That said, I suspect votes to the Tories will be stickier than those to Labour: Labour’s metropolitan social and environmental policies are the biggest turn-off for Reform voters.

Some will go to Restore too I imagine.

Excellent points.

If Reform collapses, I’d like to see Zia Yusef go back to the Tories. He’s sharp. I am not bothered about Jenrick.

No reform without Farage .

Well you could say there's no conservatives without Kemi.

The media re labour have banged on about Starmer, Reeves, Milliband for two years because no-one else has risen to the top.

I'm sure there's immense talent/knowledge across the parties but are the right people chosen for the jobs. And will the civil service, never mind the media scupper them

I’m not sure they’ll instantly collapse without Farage. They must have some sort of continuity plan, but who knows.

In Welsh news Westminster have given the Welsh government 340 million to be shared throughout Wales for SEN kids. PLAID CYMRU announced yesterday that it wasn't being distributed as agreed for education but going into the general pot.
This happened before COVID aid went into the general pot. The conservatives said bugger that and demanded it hack. I hope Westminster Labour do the same. I'm very angry.

https://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/26245209.welsh-government-decision-withhold-340m-aln-funding-travesty/?ref=cprfa&fbclid=IwVERTSAS5kj1leHRuA2FlbQIxMABzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAwzNTA2ODU1MzE3MjgAAR5BXU6QeEIrphgR5kdsAt4eR-IjZFBHQASOcOiB5xJzqdlKZf8otTyudeV3nQ_aem_v5xeybW-wY74Or3M2GK4Jg&sfnsn=scwspwa

I don’t think Reform will collapse.

Even if they do, they have moved the debate forward and been very useful for our democracy. Certain conversations and concerns cannot be put back in the box now.

Now I am confused I get two pensions plus a bit of bank interest 20k total. . Im paying 4k tax this year. It's no different from when I was working. Bar the NHS contribution.

I think I posted on here that I thought Farage never wanted to be prime minister and part of taking on Robert Jenrick was that he would do the job.

I guess we’ll find out shortly.