Help me not to tell DP it's his own stupid fault

[Kingfisherfly]

And offer words of encouragement.

First I'll say I don't have a perfect driving record and have points on my licemce, from doing 27 in a 20 limit without realising it wasn't 30.

DP has done similar, although this time it was 72 in a 50 (not 70) limit. He was pulled over by a police officer on a motorbike, who he felt enjoyed his job a little too much, and is incensed that he was only going at the speed of the traffic, why him etc (yes, I know I'm taking that with a pinch of salt).

Beyond that he's worried about what it will mean re points and/or a ban, mainly because of how it will affect work.

He wasn't given any paperwork at the time, and hasn't received any yet. At what point does he tell his insurance company?

And what will likely happen next?

Fair enough

Makes your OP a bit unnecessary then as clearly you aren’t tempted to tell him anything of the sort

he needs to accept responsibility for his actions. He chose to do 72 in a 50 zone.

The officer was correctly doing his job.

Instead he is whining about being stopped.

If he goes on about it being unfair, you need to say well you chose to drive at that speed. Why dress it up and pretend its not his fault just to keep him happy.

I had 2 family members caught for speeding in the same week and told them both that it served them right.

My ex was a magistrate

And he said that if the defendant was wearing a nice suit etc he was more inclined to be lenient with him?

Isn’t it standard advice to dress smartly?

I’d be concerned if someone received a harsher sentence for the exact same offence because they didn’t wear a tie

I've no idea if this advice would make much differemce in practice but it is very naive to think appearance doesn't affrct the way we are judged in every other aspect of life, so not unreasomable to think it might make some difference here.

🤷‍♀️
I would dress smartly in his shoes without a nano second’s further thought

but I would hope that the legal system isn’t swayed by a tie

DP (who is one of the horrible police officers on motorbikes or in a car catching people speeding/with illegal tints/licence plates etc etc and actually yes, does enjoy his job keeping the roads safe) says it'll be 3 points and a £100 fine. No court appearance, unless your DP decides to add insult to injury and go to court to proclaim his innocence, in which case it'll likely be bumped up to 6 points and a bigger fine/court costs. No speed awareness course either, obviously.

I for exactly that for doing 52 in a 40 with no prior convictions

this is 23 over with a recent prior conviction

Hmm.

Maybe it depends on the officer or the force then? Or the road? I can't ask him now because he's selfishly fallen asleep, but he seemed quite adamant.

Ok, I think we get the message that you're determined this is the end of life as he knows it. Others with experience seem to think differently. We shall see and I'll let you know once we do.

It’s fairly explicit on the sentencing guidelines posted up thread

and that was a starting point and didn’t consider any past convictions… and even on in that he would get more than 3 points and £100

Oh calm down.

No I don’t. And even if it was… as you have confirmed a few times…. Wouldn’t impact you in the slightest

Me? 🤣

It’s not my boyfriend (thank god!)

and if I ever did have a boyfriend who’s response was to think the police was in the wrong and a jobsworth… well, I’d prob be thinking “twat, what am I doing with someone like this”

But sounds like very sensibly you don’t live together

Not “a nice suit” but more about showing respect. They are seeing people from all walks of life, every demographic, and they understand that some people will never actually own a suit or any kind of smartish clothes.
If however you do own a suit, and are polite and apologetic, then it’s not going to go against you. They will have heard every excuse under the sun for speeding so just simply admitting the offence doesn’t hurt either. Do NOT say you couldn’t help but drive at 70mph because you were desperate for the loo…

How would they know if someone did or didn’t own a suit?

They will have heard everyexcuse under the sun for speeding so just simply admitting the offence doesn’t hurt either. Do NOT say you couldn’t help but drive at 70mph because you were desperate for the loo…

indeed but that’s the plea! Not anything to do with clothing

Ok so apparently different police forces have different threshold policies- some forces/services/constabularies operate a more zero tolerance policy than others.

72 is on the boundary for DP's force of a fixed penalty notice (standard 3 points and £100 fine).

Existing points are irrelevant UNLESS they take the driver close to or over the 'totting up' threshold (12 points within 3 years).

So we could both be correct, depending on the area.

The sentencing guidelines posted above are across England and not dependent on the force

Dear lord, there’s a lot of rubbish being trotted out here.

OP, the sentencing guidelines others have posted show the penalties. For his recorded speed, I would expect six points and a fine equivalent to 100% of his weekly income. The range is 4-6 points; magistrates cannot go outside that range, and if they tried, their Legal Advisor will step in and stop them. A short disqualification is possible, but very unlikely. Oh, and points drop off after three years (I think of offence date, rather than conviction date, but stand to be corrected), not five years.

If he accepts he was the driver (which the NIP is designed to establish) he will be asked to declare an income amount, which would only be checked on a quick make-sense basis, if at all - some people put their yearly as their weekly by mistake, for example.

His case could even be dealt with by way of the Single Justice Procedure, but that will all come clear if and when he gets the Notice of Intended Prosecution.

I'm going to have to name change after this. I'm a magistrate and we see these sorts of offences in traffic court all the time.

Normally when you get caught speeding, you get a fixed penalty notice in the post which offers a £100 fine, speed awareness course and 3 points on your licence. (NB: when you pay this fine DON'T FORGET TO INCLUDE YOUR LICENCE WHEN YOU RETURN THE FORM. So many people forget to do this and end up getting prosecuted via a single justice procedure. Once this happens, you're liable for a fine of 50% of your monthly earnings, and you have to pay the prosecution costs on top. The Met Police charge £130 per prosecution!)

If the speed over the speed limit exceeds 10% + 9mph, then the offence is considered so severe it can't be dealt with by a fixed penalty and can only be dealt with via SJP. As before, this means that you will have to pay a fine which is either 100% or 150% (depending on where the mags place it in terms of seriousness) of your monthly income, plus prosecution costs. And you could get 4-6 points on your license OR, if the offence is aggravated by anything like time of day that the speeding happened, was it near a school, previous convictions, etc, the mags could decide to disqualify for 7-28 days.

Do we go 'easier' on people who wear suits and ties? No. But it does 'offend the dignity of the court' when people turn up wearing raggedy old jogging bottoms and clearly. If someone turns up with a bad attitude in general (and clothing and overall presentation could be part of this), then we may go towards the harsher end of the penalty to push the point home that if you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.

A poster upthread was disbelieving that someone could have 14 points on their license and still be driving. This can and does happen. If someone is a 'totter' and has amounted 12 or more points on their license, they can come to court and plead exceptional hardship. They have to satisfy the court that if they lost their license, it would have a detrimental impact to people other than themselves. Losing your job because you lost your license doesn't count as an exceptional hardship argument on its own. But if it meant you then couldn't pay your employees, or losing your license meant you could no longer drive your elderly mother to her dialysis appointments, or your children may end up homeless because you can't pay the rent - the court will probably be minded to accept those arguments and let you continue to drive but the points remain on your license. However, if you get caught for another traffic offence, you can't claim exceptional hardship using the same reasons for three years. So unless you can find another reason for exceptional hardship that you haven't already used, you're getting disqualified for a good little while.

Right, off to name change!

I think it's a week's income, not a month and is reduced for a guilty plea?

I also don't think you've needed to send in your licence for a fixed penalty notice for years. Not since the move away from paper licences?

Ok let’s say someone is no fixed abode, or they live in a bad street in a very deprived area, unemployed, visibly a drug addict, then they’re probably not going to be wearing a suit. But, appearing contrite, apologising for their offence and trying their best basically, won’t hurt their chances.

Again, it’s about respect and acknowledgement of the seriousness of the situation, not treating it like a huge inconvenience.