Has anyone else rethought meat and dairy after seeing Slingshot adverts?

[Wyatt148]

Has anyone seen the slingshot_uk ads in the London Underground?

I’m a 43(f), about two months ago I googled vegetarian meal planning/recipes as I was trying to both cut my weekly shopping bill and be a bit healthier. I was always semi-conscious of animal welfare but always kind of put it to the side of my mind.

Well, the algorithm kicked in and wow.. I was genuinely shocked at the info that poured into my feed…what I learned about ‘big agri’ and mass factory farming. I couldn’t believe what I was reading/seeing/hearing so dug a bit deeper thinking I was just being fed the extreme versions….but no. The supply chains for the big supermarkets: Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury’s, Lidl etc. I then started looking into the practices of more local dairy farms, slaughterhouses, thinking I’ll just pay a bit more to a local butcher, a way to find a way of buying these things and being ok with myself, but…same practices. The bottom line wins out.

The Slingshot campaign is focused on marketing tactics and exposing factory farming at a large scale, but the data I kept (keep) getting is about all dairy farming and slaughterhouses and my world view has shifted entirely. I’m genuinely shook. The suffering of these animals, bred for this, is undeniable.

I can’t believe I’m this age and didn’t realise or understand the exploitation and what these animals go through (for those of you who are aware I’m sure this sounds completely idiotic). I really wish I’d known this sooner but I guess a combination of slick marketing and my own denial/wilful ignorance won out.

I feel stunned and ultimately really guilty. I’ve been vegan for a month now (cheaper shopping bill and feel great for it both physically and mentally). I’ve heard lots of arguments about health (although the scientific research wins out there but understand it may not be feasible for some), and it’s been an adjustment as I live with a partner and three large dogs who still eat meat/dairy. But I just wanted to share as I really wish I’d known to look into this in detail before now, maybe there are some of you who will appreciate this also.

I promise this isn’t an underhanded, goady post and I fully expect to get folk arguing for meat/dairy for health reasons, but wanted to highlight this as I wish I knew the realities of what goes on behind those dairy and slaughterhouse walls before now, so maybe some of you will too.

I know some vegan activists are aggressive and off putting but ultimately I understand they’re trying to highlight the injustice of it all. When I watch the footage (I’ll not share links as very graphic but easy to find and I can share if anyone wants) it’s clear as day. I’d urge everyone interested to take a look, I wish I’d known sooner.

Yes, I understand that they wouldn't be bred into existence in the first place then, but maybe no life is better than the one they experience where their sole purpose is as food/commodity (from the conditions I've seen in factory farming anyway).

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g - your childhood sounds just like mine! Eating meat every day was never a thing but we never felt that we were missing out.

I haven’t seen that particular campaign but I have worked on farms and briefly in an abbatoir. Animals absolutely can be farmed and slaughtered ethically. The problem for those trying to do this ethically is that most consumers are black and white about it.

Some people are - I love meat, it’s my right to eat it every day and I don’t give a shit how it lived or died.

Others are - the whole industry is horrific, I want nothing to do with it. Veganism for me.

It feels as though the incentives to farm and slaughter animals well are not there in the UK. It’s a shame.

@Wyatt148 those stats feel a little .. well ... suspect.

That’s the point really isn’t it? They don’t need to exist in the numbers they do.

can’t see why that would make them extinct though.

This is why I posted in the OP to begin with, (was assuming folk took a look at that campaign before replying, and based on some responses, that they already knew or had heard these stats before, but maybe not).
But yes this is why I was so stunned. Do you think its 'fake news'? Are there other sources for this you or anyone could share? I'd be very happy if these were wrong tbh!

It could quite possibly be. I find (on a purely personal not ethical level) drinking milk a lot more odd than eating meat. Why, past weaned age, would any animal need to drink any milk, let alone that from a different animal to its own species, and not even the same sub-species. I questioned that from a very early age.

@Wyatt148 which ones are suspect? Well this one for a start - "99.6% of UK slaughterhouses are not compliant with hygiene and food safety requirements." we have a very strong health and safety culture on the UK and the human food chain is rigorously inspected and controlled. The idea that pretty much all slaughter houses based in the UK do not meet UK law requirements for of hygiene and and food safety - seems .. well ... a bit strange.

Yeah, you're saying suspect/strange, I'm saying shocking/stunning, I agree it seems extreme (hence my OP) but am taking it on face value in the absence of any other sources atm.
That campaign is definitely well put together/looks slick and you may well be right in suggesting data is being cherry picked or is misleading/straight up false. I'm just choosing to give them the benefit of the doubt until I can see other evidence to challenge it, but I'm open

Edit to add @Ginmonkeyagain as didn't hit quote :)

So here is the list of approved slaughterhouses and meat processing establishments in the UK - are you saying that these only represent 0.4% of all the slaughterhouses in the UK? Because that is what that stat you quoted implies.

www.food.gov.uk/business-guidance/approved-food-establishments

My decisions about what to eat are not influenced by videos made by activists pushing a specific, and quite extreme. agenda.

I imagine that everyone here is against poor practice and cruelty in animal husbandry. I believe that slingshot are part funded by an anonymous American 'philanthropic organisation', until I know who they are I am not that interested in their videos. US high intensity farming is appalling and I would not buy any food produced in America. The main factory farming in this country is cheap chicken, and some pig farming I agree this is an abomination

I am interested in high welfare food and shop accordingly. As I live in the countryside this is straightforward and I frequently buy from neighbours.

For all those thinking veganism is the answer have a few lessons about that. Land that has heavy farm machinery driving over it several times a year - to plough (maybe), to drill, to spray (more than once, to fertilise and for pest control), to harvest the crop. This compresses the soil, reducing root penetration and water retention. This leads to a higher risk of run off in wet weather and poorer take up of nutrients into the crop. After a period of time the soil is dead, has no nutrients and crops can only be grown using massive amounts of costly inputs.

Increasing numbers of British farmers have, for the last 20-30 years been moving back to regenerative farming. It's not new it's the traditional way of farming, raising crops on fields grazed by livestock, inter planting crops, cover crops, going back to smaller and more versatile native breeds. Soil health has improved, nutritional value of food is higher, animal welfare is higher, biodiversity of birds and insects has improved, and a well-managed grazed pasture sequesters CO2 more effectively than trees.

If you have concerns that is good but do please read from a wider range of source material.

'Approved' doesn't necessarily mean that they are operating in an ethical, legal and 'humane' manner at all times?

When I was a microwave operator cook in pubs as a student, we washed our hands a lot more often, were more careful and followed procedures immaculately when inspectors were in. Most of the rest of the time we winged it as best we could.

Schools famously run around sorting all manner of usually ignored things out when they expect offstead.

Abusive people often put on a great act when others are around.

I have not read the whole (sub) thread so I may be off the mark here but generally I do not think that any establishment that operates without surveillance 99.9% of the time is consistently doing things it should (and not things it shouldn't).

You get some odd characters attracted to menial jobs where they are paid to hurt, maim and kill others. Often lacking education and with learning difficulties and/or MH issues. They are not going to immaculately care for animals that they likely just saw as 'things' before becoming even more desensitised having had to kill them en masse day in, day out. I very much doubt they'll be careful and with a job that is as likely to be mundane as it is awful, I almost do not blame them for resorting to finding 'fun' in it by causing even more fear to the animals. I saw a video a while back of a guy kicking a piglet constantly just because he liked the squeals of pain she made.

To me, there's no 'humane' unless we're talking sedating an old dog before injecting a drug that stops his heart. But what goes on in any establishment where workers are overworked, underpaid and likely not of the highest level of empathy where everything is hugely time-sensitive, let's be real. Those people are not going to be concerned about 'humane'. With little exception if they were, they'd not be working there in the first place.

YANBU, I was so horrified to see male chicks being ground alive, I struggle to eat eggs now, if they are not bought from my neighbours’ home flock.

@Ptikobj of course approved doe s not mean 100% clean all the time - just that in a country where we do have high standards and strict legal requirements around what enters the human food chain, the figure of 99.6% of establishments not complying with legal regulations feels suspiciously made up.

I know what you mean, and I would love to see that figure dissected as it is seemingly rather vague, what sort of criteria are they looking at.

I can still believe it though. Can you imagine if we did that of any institutional workplace?

E.G I am a sociologist. I have worked on a lot of research projects where I can tell you, statistics are skewed and the most money goes into the projects where someone who has a lot of money has something to prove. That's just a given.

But I also have a counselling qualification and have worked for helplines and MH crisis lines etc etc.

If someone told me that 99.9% of counsellors are odd people with a whole lot of issues between them, I would not question it.

Same if someone told me how badly skewed 5*hygiene rated food establishments are having worked in more than several as a student. I've seen people use their own saliva to clean knives when they found a smear and couldn't be bothered walking back into the kitchen. If nobody is actually monitoring it at the time, it doesn't happen.

Undercover is everything. In my 'trade', covert participant observation is hugely frowned upon and borderline illegal in some cases. But it is also where the magic happens. Where we find out the actual reality of things people do not want us to know about.

There's a reason we're told 'Cows give us yummy milk!' from a young age. Dairy industry is linked to the curriculum. I've met grown adults (including a professor!!) who thought cows literally 'gave' milk, didn't have to be impregnated or birth in order to do that but just, 'that animal does milk'. Baffled me but it is indoctrination. These facts are hidden. The meat industry is cloak and dagger for a very good reason.

Joey Carbstrong (influencer) is doing some innovative work if you're interested.

No no I'm not saying that the approved list only represents 0.4% of the total number of slaughterhouses in the UK (although I've no idea how many there are in total), I don't personally think thats what the stat implies, I think it implies that some approved slaughterhouses aren't meeting standards in reality.

Thats just to clarify my interpretation of the information for you, as you've asked. Like I've said before, I'm not standing over it as I haven't done any of that research myself, would be interested in a more detailed breakdown though before completely dismissing it.

ETA: the other stats I quoted re. chickens and gassing pigs are believable to me unfortunately

FWIW there are around 200, 150 of which are 'mass' slaughterhouses (factory farms).
1.2 billion animals are slaughtered per year for food.

Thanks.
That's a staggering number of animals

It is. And it needs to stop.

When I first went vegan (around the year 2001 I think) I never thought I would see any traction to it in my lifetime. I am very glad that I have, but a LOT more needs to be done. This thread has served me well in that I have noted a number of farmer's children have become vegans (telling in itself). From a sustainability standpoint this mass slaughtering needs to subside, we simply cannot continue to grow enough crops to feed all these animals destined for slaughter, if human populations carry on growing we'll have nothing left.

Ethically, looking at my beloved dog and knowing animals similar to her intellect and perception wise, and similar to me in the fact that they have emotions and feel fear, joy, sadness and anger (not to mention harbouring the exact same nervous system) are in these establishments because 'But HuMaNz needs meeaats' is a very difficult thing to live with.

I do the little bit I can with limited funds and limited influence. But small groups of people with a clear goal are the only thing that has ever truly changed anything. I live in hope.

I’ll never stop eating meat. My health has vastly improved since significantly upping intake. I’m off medications and my psoriasis has finally healed. Meat contains every single vitamin your body needs.

Thanks for this, and I completely agree.
Having dogs also helped it hit home for me I think.

I believe more people would rethink (or think atall about) their choices if they were more aware of the actual practices used. That was me anyway, I knew about slaughterhouses but assumed high standards and believed the labelling - if I'm being totally honest I knew I was kind of fooling myself even at that. That was one of the reasons for posting, I wish I saw what I've now seen, sooner.

And tbh, even if that particular campaign's stats are being exaggerated x 10 times, ultimately for me its still too much unnecessary cruelty.

I am having a look at all the things posters have responded with so appreciate all the input. But yeah, hopefully we see more and more detailed, accurate and verifiable information in the mainstream, and let everyone make their own informed choices.

Based on what I've seen so far I've made mine.

Jeez. What a horrible post.

It's not basically it though is it. The OP is referring specifically to the treatment of animals to get them killed. Allowing them to endure horrific treatment, stress and suffering as part of it doesn't have to be "basically it".

Do you actually understand how the large abattoirs operate?

I was also super shocked that wild animals are only 5% of the Earth’s biomass (weight) with humans at 34% and cattle 35%. If you Google, there are some startling graphics.

'If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be vegetarian' is a famous quote from the early 70s? I think.

While I believe some people still simply wouldn't care, I think a lot more would. These places are hidden for a reason and I am glad there's more available footage now. People are getting arrested and taking risks that they shouldn't have to, but for them it is worth it and I commend them.

James Cromwell turned vegan while filming 'Babe'. He was astounded by the pig's intellect, affectionate natures and skills. To me that says a lot.