Seeing polite, well-dressed young men chatting happily in a café

[TheAverageJoanne]

I'm having lunch in a really nice (not naice) coffee house and bistro. The table just next to us had three guys about 19-20 having lunch together. One white, one black, one Asian. All dressed well, one wearing a Sade retro t-shirt. Sade!! Good conversation which we could hear and not a single swear word. I don't know why this makes me really happy but it does.

Oh and btw, man does ordinary parenting ‘gush, gush, great dad!’
Woman sets boundary by pointing out sexist discrepancy in how mothers and fathers are viewed and negative impact this can have on said mothers ‘you bitter woman’.

Yup. I see you.

You weren't there, you can't possibly judge the situation and tell me I'm wrong. Your bitterness at your own partner's failure is causing you to believe that you know better than me about a lengthy period of time that I spent in a parent's company. You don't.

I have worked in secondary schools. Most teenagers and young people are decent. Teenagers in particular get a bad reputation but as always its the minority ruining it for the majority.

The fact that you that you think that a man managed to parent normally over ‘an extended period of time in a coffee shop’ is so remarkable that it bears repeating over and over to prove your case, just shows how low you have set the bar for Fathers over Mothers.

And yet me as a woman objecting to this sexist double standard means I should just be dismissed as ‘bitter’ , repeatedly. This difference in how you judge women compared to men just reinforces your sexism, not mitigates it.

I know what you mean OP. Sometimes overhearing little social interactions just warm your heart. I don't think it means the bar is lower for men or women. I had that little happy moment recently at a concert with DS age 12. The stadium was full of young people, about half and half and absolutely no exhibitionism which is unusual with crowds of young women. No fake tan or obscenely short shorts or boobs on display. It gave me hope. DS age 18 was meeting some pals recently and one of them asked the lads to call in to a particular pub for a while as his young adult cousin who has down syndrome was celebrating a birthday and he'd love a few extra people there. All the lads went along to wish the guy well and he was delighted. That warmed my heart too.

I expect it also depends how old the OP is. I'm nearly 60 and you wouldn't see men of my generation when in their teens/early 20s going to a cafe/bistro to socialise. It would be hanging out by the çhip shop, the local park or in the pub drinking because there wasn't a cafe (or anything else) in the village I grew up in. In fact it's probably because of their ages, I think I read the younger generation are not that bothered by alcohol and there are more cafes/bistros and places to eat now that it's normal.

Some people seem to think all young people would snap at anyone daring to chat, or make small-talk, because they're always on their phones.
Actually, that might well apply to older people.

It’s just nice hearing about little interactions that are happy when we have so much in the news (rightly or wrongly) and how society is falling apart. These interactions happen all the time but of course aren’t news worthy and I sometimes feel very negative. That can be amplified on MN

Definitely agree with it being generational.
I'm firmly in the millennial bracket and honestly can't imagine the lads I went through school with doing that.
My nephew who was born in 2004 totally different question and I can definitely imagine him and his mates sat in a indi coffee shop.

This is exactly what I mean.

The side argument about the dad and his child in the coffee shop has gone a bit skewy. I agree that that was an example of a normal dad and how they should be, in the same way as the lads I saw today were. It's not special and it's not insulting mothers. I'm lost here.

For @TroysMammy, I'm 39.

I don't think his parenting was "normal" at all, it was well above the average that I see out and about.

You don't know a thing about how I judge mothers, except perhaps f you've seen me write that I think it's one of the hardest jobs in the world and I could not have done it myself.

In fact you have no basis whatsoever too accused me of having different standards for mother's and father's.

I'm sorry your own partner was a useless father and gave you such a hard time, but I would be grateful if you could stop protecting your own bitterness onto me and onto my one short upbeat post about a parent doing a good job.

I work with some really lovely 16 - 18 year olds. So, so polite.

I love Sade!

All the "was sat" appalling grammar on this thread is excruciating. It's "I sat" or "I was sitting".

Gosh. My son is 22. He is perfectly able to have a convo with mates without swearing. But I’ll give you a better scene: he works in a men’s boutique and has befriended a customer (widower in his 70s) due to mutual love of football. My son has a car and takes him to local football matches and they occasionally go out for a drink after work (they are going tomorrow). My son doesn’t have a dad (dead) nor living grandparents. So it’s an adopt a grandson/grandparent type relationship that has developed naturally. Now that’s heartwarming.

The trend towards being grateful , journalling three things that made you happy today etc . are all about acknowledging nice moments like this. Just little interactions that lift your spirits etc. Such a shame that some posters can’t wait to piss on OPs chips. Maybe that’s one of their “ three things that made you feel good today” !

I know what you mean op. In a society where we’re constantly given negative messages about teen boys and young men and how divided society is, it’s nice to see that it isn’t like that.
I love hearing the teens here exclaiming with “oh my days!” Instead of swearing.

Because too many people are keen to pick up on the slightest 'misdemeanour' to moan about. I used to always tell my pupils that 'good news is no news' to many people.

What the actual ???

This is what my son would say too. I think maybe some of the posters here don’t have sons!

I have an adult son. I happened to be out with him and many of his friends at a wedding party last week. They are all perfectly normal like the young men the OP mentioned. Out of the 20+ young men (that I knew) at this party, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them having a coffee with their mates. I know for certain ds meets a friend or couple of friends for a coffee every now and then. Most of them are in heterosexual relationships. That doesn't mean you aren't allowed to have a coffee with mates you know. What a really bizarre thing to say.

A white, a black and an Asian walk into a cafe...

I find it noteworthy, very often experience groups of young men getting bladdered (at all times of day) and talking shite and very much less often see similar to the OP.
I see it a lot in Spain and it contrasts with my experiences in England. If my expectations are low they’re based only on what I generally observe.

A few years ago, I was sitting outside a cafe in West Hampstead having lunch next to a table with two young men, aged 19-20, who were having lunch and chatting about their plans that evening which involved going to a rave then back to someone’s house who had decks so one of them could DJ there. They were young, well-spoken, well-dressed, exceptionally good looking (tall, built, good skin, good teeth - they had won the genetic lottery), and from their conversation were clearly popular and very cool.

I have no idea why but it made me so happy. I don’t have kids, but if I had a son I would love for him to be exactly like that.

I work with some lovely young people ages 18- mid 20s. Some of them are genuinely great company.

I honestly had no idea that men having coffee with friends suggests they're a gay throuple. Is this actually a stereotype that going for coffees means your gay?

What a low bar you (we?) have set for men