Daughter refused transvaginal scan because of virginity

[Fej]

Our eldest daughter (19) has been experiencing a women's health issue that has required further investigation. She has been trying to get all of this done rather quickly, as she will moving abroad soon. When she went to have scans done, she was asked if she has ever had sex. After this question was asked, she was apparently told that they wouldn't be doing the transvaginal ultrasound, as they do not do them on women who are virgins. DD was very upset. She felt humiliated because the woman seemed surprised when she said no and even made a comment that she does not see that often with young women nowadays. DD has told me that she will just lie if asked in the future. It saddens me that she feels she has to lie to receive better treatment.

AIBU for feeling that this seems a very antiquated and outdated policy? Are they not aware that being a virgin does not necessarily mean that a woman has an intact hymen? Not to be vulgar but tampons and masturbation do exist. You would think that medical professionals would be aware of this. Someone shouldn't be denied superior medical care because of their sexual activity or lack thereof. Our daughters deserve better.

You shouldn’t need a smear if you’re a virgin though, surely?

In the 90s, I was told by my GP surgery that I would not need a smear test if I’d never had sex. I still have the letter.

I mean, there IS a good reason why it's not a good idea, but she should have been offered the choice.

If I were her, and other diagnostic methods were available, I'd choose those. I have had two transvaginal scans and they were both fine, but they are also invasive. Quite apart from the risk of infection and bleeding, I wouldn't want my first experience of penetration to be this.

But still. She should have been offered the choice. Very poor.

Course of least resistance here to get the right medical care is to lie.

You're unlikely to have a reaction much different to anyone else if it's painful so nobody is going to be able to identify a lie.

I don't find transvaginal ultrasounds painful - cold with the gel, then hard, smooth plastic and some pressure but everybody's mileage varies.

You are very unlikely to get cervical cancer if you have never had sex as the main cause is HPV, a virus transmitted sexually. Yes, there are cases of nuns having cervical cancer before anyone corrects me but these are very unusual and extremely rare and not really what the cervical screening programme was implemented for

I think telling people they don't need smears if they've never had sex is unhelpful tbh (aimed at NHS providers, not anyone here, to be clear), just because "sex" means different things to different people. PIV sex is obviously not the only kind of sexual activity that transmits HPV, but no one's going to want to discuss a whole menu of possibilities with a GP receptionist, so it's better just to encourage smears for all imo. HPV isn't the only risk factor for cervical cancer anyway, though admittedly is by far the biggest.

Sorry, cross-posted, but I stand by my opinion.

it is most unlikely that any invasive intimate procedure would be undertaken in this situation without consultant opinion .
The comment made by the health professional was inappropriate & unacceptable

What are you saying? Is your rationale also that lesbians don’t need smear tests?

I'm glad I'm not the only mum with s daughter who's still a virgin. She's 19. I sometimes feel like she's the only one. They seem to become sexually active so young these days.

I’ve had a TVS and they never asked me about my sexual history. Also if there is a need for it (i. e. can’t be done via an abdominal scan) and your daughter consents they cannot refuse, she should complain.

As a doctor I’m really surprised, reading these responses, that there’s such outrage about this. Forcibly breaking the intact hymen of a young women with a TV ultrasound wand is something that would not be done lightly at all - there is the potential for serious pain and bleeding, to say nothing of the long-term psychological effects of painful penetration in an environment where she’s likely to be nervous and tense in the first place. Even someone who has used tampons is likely to still have a partially intact hymen if they have never had penetrative sex. Any procedure requiring vaginal penetration needs to be medically justified, and in most cases an alternative to a TV scan is available and is a reasonable compromise.

that's interesting, my GP surgery nurse keeps insisting on it, even though I am still a virgin and when I had previous smears done in the past, they were very painful. I don't have sex, and so I just do the private urine test every year to check for the HPV virus.

I think people are upset because asking a woman if she has ever had sex doesn't tell you what the status of her hymen is, and the TV scan should still be an option that is offered to the patient regardless of the answer. Mine was very much broken years before I had penetrative sex. I know this for certain. I think it's slightly naive to believe that the majority of non-sexually active adult women have intact hymens. I would say those that do are in the minority.

It is ridiculous, I've heard about it before. The very question about "having had sex" or being sexually active is unclear. What if you had non-penetrative sex? On the other hand, what if you don't have sex but regularly use tampons? They should just be honest and ask women if their hymen is intact - and check if unsure - if the hymen is the problem.

As a patient, just imagine the psychological and physiological effects of not getting diagnosed with ovarian cancer in time, because the health provider was more concerned with your hymen than with offering you the most effective diagnostic tool that could potentially save your life.

The point is, girls and women should be thoroughly informed about the procedure and, its advantages and disadvantages, and then be given a CHOICE. That's all.

But OP didn’t mention anything about suspected ovarian cancer, only that her daughter was having a health issue investigated.
She also didn’t specify whether DD was offered an alternative procedure instead.

They don't necessarily need to do a vaginal scan for many things a scan over the abdomen is often good enough. I guess they are worried that it might cause some girls problems if being able to prove they are a virgin is important in their community. Being a virgin is nothing to be embarrassed about in fact the reverse.

With all of this talk about hymens on this thread, we mustn't forget that not everyone cares about their hymen remaining intact. It's a bit strange to make it out as if it's some sacred valuable possession to everyone.

It's also a myth that it breaking is some horrifically bloody event. I once heard a gynaecologist say that it's not some kind of freshness seal but rather a stretchy piece of tissue and thought that was brilliant. She explained that it becomes stretchier and thinner during puberty due to hormones.

As a HCP, and someone who had multiple transvaginal ultrasounds while I was a virgin, I think it’s outrageous that even though she provided consent she was not allowed to have the procedure.

As others have said, most virgins will not have an intact hymen by the age of 19 anyway, I certainly didn’t, you can be a virgin and be used to penetration via masturbation. I think the HCP should have asked her if she was comfortable with having the probe inserted and showed her it, if she still consented then it should have gone ahead. It’s quite infantilising to assume she would have an intact hymen and that she’s never been penetrated by anything at the age of 19.

This is irrelevant. It is NHS policy not to offer "virgins" intravaginal scans, regardless of the reason a scan might be necessary. One of the things intravaginal scans are good at - and external scans are much worse at - is detecting potentially cancerous changes in the womb and ovaries. To be denied this potentially life-saving diagnostic scan because you haven't been penetrated by some guy's penis is really not great.

I have to have a child size speculum due to stenosis post radiotherapy & was told trans vaginal scan probe is only one size. But was offered abdominal ultrasound or the much more reliable pelvic MRI instead. Really bad the way your DD was treated & no alternative offered. I can also see the possible impact though if not able to go through it. Another example of women’s bodies not being catered for even within an exclusively female health area. Why does that not surprise.

The problem with gynae issues is that they can be difficult to diagnose. Tbh even with the internal scan it may be tricky. Some conditions are only diagnosed when they actually internally insert cameras via laparoscopy. But in terms of this stage I would expect that they can do an external scan. Its probably just that they prefer to do both or one overthe other due to convenience vs effectiveness. But in all honesty its the NHS, its 'free' we should be grateful etc etc. You could go private. They would take a lot more time and attention. It may cost approx £1k. I had an internal scan privately for gynae issues (hence the cost estimation based on my experience) as the NHS were saying it wouldnt do it in the timescale I could cope with and i had other personal circumstances. But in all honesty I wish I hadnt bothered because the later NHS scan showed same results 6 months later. You could contact your GP and discuss with them. Some GP's actually have access to local scan equipment like the one you mentioned. My GP has previously sent me for exactly this scan at another local GP practice who had the equipment. So worth a GP discussion.

But we don’t know that someone with suspected ovarian cancer would have been denied it? Lots of people have just said they’ve had the scan while being virgins so the ‘policy’ seems to vary, or have some caveats? Surely if there were a medical need the scan would have gone ahead, but it might warrant some discussion first if the practitioner knew it could cause significant discomfort or trauma.

I think DD needs to discuss this with her doctor. That’s the way forward in her case.

You right, they only test for HPV in the UK which is sexually transmitted.