Henry Nowak second thread, as requested.

[rolloverbeethoven]

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5536249-henry-nowak?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Of course it matters, it’s horrifying. It just isn’t an indicator of anti whiteness, in my view, but something much more basic and common to the bad side of humanity. Which is ‘people tell lies to try to get away with things’.

This encompasses a much wider issue though. Young Britons today are having a tough time and there is plenty of opportunity for bad actors to turn their heads. But… how is teaching Sikhs that everything bad that happened/s in India and Pakistan is the fault of the British*, any different to bad actors like Farage peddling his poison when this generation is more likely than any another to act on that. It’s already been made clear that Digwa’s generation are interested in carrying bigger knives and being more overt about their faith.

*I’m well aware of British involvement in partition, but that’s the British ruling class, not ordinary Britons. And even so, why allow people to live here if they’re going to live with that attitude. The past needs to be put to bed, or everyone remains a victim of something or other.

Why did you compare? Actually there’s some similarity, Penelope Jackson also blamed the dead man for abusing her, and that was found to be untrue. Why do you think an 18 year tariff is sufficient for her?

@JaneFondue It's still not (at all) what they said.

Enough is enough until the next time. And there will be a next time and another one.......
The police are terrified of being labelled racist when trying to do a very difficult job. Look at what happened with the Mancheyser airport attack, I would think that any other airport in the world , these attackers would be shot dead immediately, instead there was angry mob gathered at the police station and the police chiefs had to hold a meeting with the Muslim leaders. Why? It was plain to see on video (after the doctored footage was revealed in full) what had happened. Would this happen if it was white men? Of course not.
I could go on and include Nottingham, Southport, Manchester arena but that has already been covered in the first thread

i disagree @rolloverbeethoven and I found it terribly distasteful. There is no reason to include illegal immigrants and Sikhs in the same convo.

It’s mentioned year after year in Religious Studies that initiated Sikhs carry a kirpan as one of the five Ks. Even if you’re a moron who sat dicking around at the back of the class picking your nose and eating your boogers, the very least you would have picked up on is the 5 Ks. I presume you’re an immigrant who hasn’t gone through the British school system in which case fair enough. But what’s everybody else’s excuse?

I wonder if I , a white woman , phoned 999 and said I had been racially abused would the police even come - considering it took them three days to come to my home when my white, 13 year old daughter had been assaulted.
How long would it take?

Two tier policing is now under scrutiny-as it should be,
The police ‘service’ will take at least a decade to sort itself out,
It’s manned and run by university graduates who have never worked in the ‘real world’ who think men can be women and that being called a racist is the worst thing that can happen to anybody,
We can see this because of the tens of thousands of girls who have been raped, impregnated , sodomised and abused over decades by Muslim men and the police, the social workers, the councillors and the MPs ignored it.
Where are the left wing now? Oh they merrily march week after week screaming antisemetic shite terribly concerned about ‘genocide’ in the Gaza Strip.
But they are mysteriously silent when it comes to white British girls being abused for decades in their tens -no hundreds- of thousands in the UK.
Henry is simply another victim of this left wing ideology which our civil service -teachers, lecturers, home office, police, fire brigade, nhs- promotes at the cost of the white British.
Are the Rivers of blood about to start flowing?
I really hope not but this country is heading for civil war unless things change.
We are tearing it apart.

"Anyone who thinks Sikh's are integrated into this country doesnt know their community. It's true that they dont generally cause much trouble but that is not the same thing. Gurdwaras teach them to dislike the British and blame Britain for anything and everything bad that has ever happened in India and Pakistan".

Have you ever set foot in a Gurdwara? Have you ever actually spoken to a Sikh? There are too many people on this thread who are literally making stuff up. My husband did question why I went on mumsnet- he said 'surely it's like reading the comments section on the daily mail'. Do you read the daily mail? @roxyro do you too? Still waiting for your information source too? Nothing posted yet? I wonder why!

I'm waiting for someone to spout "white privilege", but unless I've missed it...

Do something better with your time. Read a book.

It’s staggering how many people will come in here to spout their views and complain when they clearly either haven’t read the sentence or simply don’t understand it.

He did not get 21 years. He got life, with a minimum of 21 years which means he will serve life in prison unless he qualifies for parole, and he cannot apply for parole for 21 years. And parole is not easy to get.

The attorney general is also currently reviewing the sentence and considering if the minimum of 21 years is too lenient, and this will likely be sent to the court of appeal to increase that or turn it into a whole life tariff. But I think we can all feel pretty safe that this guy will not be granted parole in 21 years regardless.

Late joiner to the thread, so apologies if this has been talked about already

I think the police are often between a rock and a hard place.

Can you remember the farmer who shot the burglar as he fled his farm. So, lad on the floor bleeding to death and the farmer stating that he has just been in my farm. Police look at the injuries to the lad and arrest farmer. Police heavily criticised.

Older chap in his home finds a young lad has entered and is burgling it. Older chap picks up a golf club and chases the young lad from the address and hits him with it. Police arrive, find young lad on the floor with bad injuries. Older chap is arrested despite his account. Police heavily criticised.

On this occasion police find Henry on the floor with significant injuries. Police on this occasion listen to the other side (Digwa's account) and act on it. Police heavily criticised again.

Its also sometimes easy to ciriticise people having to make a decision within seconds without the full facts or the benefit of hindsight.

Or perhaps older than you are, who had a curriculum based on Christianity even if it was not your faith.

The wilder ends of Sikhi twitter are currently bridling over Digwa being Bhatra rather than Jatt 😶

If they’re that old then they were definitely an adult in 2019 when the conservative passed the offensive weapons act, and reaffirmed the Sikhs right to carry in that act. It was on the news. It was in the papers. This hasn’t been hidden, it was public knowledge and was reported on whilst that act was going through.

I think it’s more that people actually didn’t care. Because it didn’t matter. It had never been an issue.

If people really feel that strongly about knife crime then they should be come forward in 2019. Not sit at home now saying they had no idea and things are hidden from us.

Posted on another thread. Reposting here. Nothing else to add.

Sikhism developed partly aa a way of bridging divides between Hindus and Muslims. Community service and ethical behaviour to everyone, absolutely everyone, is a cornerstone of Sikhism. A small ceremonial knife is a reminder of the need to serve and protect, of non-toxic masculinity and of human dignity. It is the absolute opposite of 'carrying a knife' for violent intent.
If you know anything about Sikhs in the UK, you will know that they selflessly and tirelessly feed the poor, help white working class businesses under threat in riots welcome all to their celebrations, etc.
One single rogue man is not a reason to demonise an entire community non-Sikhs should be engaging with as a model of a positive future for Britain.
Meantime, secular violent martial arts classes go unchecked teaching people to kill with credit cards, pens, and mobile phones. Look at those instead. Pits of toxicity attracting no hopers and a breeding ground for paramilitaries

A few points

• those arrested regularly use “I can’t breathe” and other phrases to prevent the police arresting them.
• The victim had blood which was had presumed to come from his face - a common injury in altercations involving two males
• They come into a situation with not much information
• He was arrested for a minute before they realised something was wrong. He was not “left to bleed out”
• the injury was hidden,
• he would not have lived regardless.

God the UK is a big pot waiting to boil over and you are all turning up the gas yourselves

I have to admit I don’t remember that bit of R.E. I’m not sure it was taught in 1990’s Scotland but perhaps it was and I was too busy eating boogers.

I’ve worked / studied with a couple of Sikh people over the years and I’ve never noticed anyone carrying a blade around the office or college. Perhaps generally company/ college policy is that such items are prohibited or carried discreetly?

I’ve also never heard of a kirpan being used to in another instance of violence. I do think the religious exemption will be changed as we have reactive law making these days. I’m not trying to demonise all Sikh people , the vast majority of of whom are I’m sure perfectly nice law abiding citizens. It’s just this young man was clearly a wrong ‘un who used his religious exemption to carry enormous blades around ( there’s earlier footage of him carrying a sword around London). When bad people do terrible things we restrict the rights of the many in the hopes that these terrible things don’t happen again. I’m sure the kirpan won’t be banned entirely but it may be restricted in size/ or a dulled or plastic blade which I’m sure is what many Sikh carry anyway due to restrictions of workplace/ education place or personal choice

What a post. No care for Henry.

Does no one find it strange that the images of the ‘protest’ show almost exclusively white men, no women. If this was a legitimate protest, with real and genuine sentiment from the community, where are the women?

You would assume that the police would be aware of the fact that people lie and therefore would have assessed the situation impartially and not believed the murderer in blind faith and not dragged and handcuffed a person who did not pose a threat at that time.

A police role is to arrive. Assess immediate risks to life and deal with immediate dangers. Deal with injuries and dangers first and formost
Then they gather the evidence and proceed as required

The police failed in every way possible. They are either biased or absolutely dismal at carrying out their job or both

Either way this needs addressing and the more resistant the government and the police are to acknowledge this the more unrest it is going to cause. And the more support far right movements will get.

You’re talking about conservative policies, you know that, right? Because you seem to be blaming labour for policies and training changes that came in under the conservatives.

Many sources @Bluehouse14. Sorry I haven’t jumped to it but I do have a life and things to do.

A woman I used to know well - Indian (not Sikh, Hindu) once told me never to do business with an Indian. A Sikh man I used to know once told me to keep away from Sikhs - don’t know why. FWIW I don’t have any problem with Sikhs and stated in my original post that they are generally law abiding and I know they do a lot of charitable work. I also acknowledged they keep stuff within their community and it’s true. Weapons and knives to sort out disputes happens but we don’t get to hear about it.

Don’t accuse me of being racist - that won’t wash anymore. Multi culturalism has failed. If various nationalities want to live here they must integrate and adopt British values. No more segregation, no more community leaders telling people what to do. Community leaders ie mp’s, councillors are voted in democratically in the UK not self appointed.

For too long some communities have lived in separate enclaves, following their own customs, some of which are outside of British law and the authorities have looked the other way. Not so long ago a bull was running around Birmingham city centre - the poor thing must have been terrified. Obviously an escapee from a back street, unlicensed abattoir- I mean wtf!!

I know this is nothing to do with this thread and young Henry wasn’t murdered because his attacker was a Sikh, he was stabbed by a thug who just happened to be Sikh so he’d been given a pass to carry a large knife in a sheath visible to anyone although the carrying of knives is illegal here. There should be no exceptions for anyone.

If your husband equates MN to the Mail maybe pop over to Gransnet where The Guardian is the newspaper of choice.

I don't believe this is covered in the national curriculum - some schools may cover it but it is not taught across the board in all schools in the uk