Do you believe the Michael Jackson allegations part 2

[AutumnLover1990]

New thread 😀

I must admit, I probably took longer to watch some of these documentaries than I should have because I didn’t want to believe it. But I can’t ignore those red flags either.

After seeing how common this is - men in power exploiting women and children - I became even more angry that here is yet another one that got away with it. I remember reading catch and kill about the Weinstein abuse and being absolutely astounded at how long he was able to carry on being such a predator. I lost my naivety after reading that I think.

Very clever expensive lawyers and the fact MJ targeted a certain type of child from a certain demographic often whose families had nothing to lose and might have simultaneously have skeletons in the closet. Plus the fact if you watch the documentary the jury is full of fans that absolutely idolised him. I think the truth will come out though but even then some folk will never change their minds. ☹️

@fundamentallyauthentic be interested to hear your thoughts on the Square One documentary?

I had just this conversation recently on Epstein.

I said what made him do it, he had everything, riches beyond imagination, islands ffs, hobnobbed with the rich and famous.

Why? Was it ive nothing else to achieve this gives me a buzz, or was it as simple as he was attracted to underage girls? Had he not been rich would it have happened?

Im both horrified, angry and in a very guilty way fascinated. The human psyche is a strange thing isnt it?🤯

People can look at the same information and reach different conclusions — that doesn’t automatically mean one side is ignoring evidence.

Not automatically no, but on these threads what we've said is complete single-mindedness from some supporters, it is extremely obvious that some are simply unable to get past their bias to weigh up the evidence reasonably as they believe MJ was just a sweet angel man, and any suggestion that these supporters are in fact looking at all the evidence properly and weighing it up is completely disingenuous and fooling absolutely no one but yourselves.

As many of us have said repeatedly if this were any other man who had these relationships with children, sleepovers with children and who was found with those books and who had been accused then there would be no debate, the only reason it hasn't been the case here is because it's MJ and people want to believe he was uniquely special.

Ok noted. X

surely we can all probably guess the answer to that question..the documentary deliberately ignores or minimises counter-evidence that surfaced in subsequent investigations, opting to focus solely on evidence that supports Jackson's innocence as well as relying heavily on pro-Jackson voices and experts. There’s a complete lack of objective investigative journalism ergo I imagine the cult of Jackson will love it.

My theory is that there is a higher concentration of narcissists and sociopaths at the upper echelons of society. They make their way there because of the blind belief they have in themselves that they are somehow special and untouchable. Mix that with having paedophilic tendancies and being surrounded by yes men and it’s the perfect storm

Yes it's a fan favourite.

Totally agree with this. Added to that Jackson reached a level of stardom and fame that I don’t think we have ever really seen or will see again. Surrounded by yes people, adoring fans, huge amounts of income and the propensity to do what he liked with that money. Probably saw himself as invincible and above the law. No wonder he had a Messiah complex.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely

I think he played on the wacko persona and the public thought of him as some kind of weird creature that liked hanging out with kids and was like them. We can see some of his fans still do.

Lisa Marie cared about him but was astute enough not to have his child, she knew he would leave her and "keep" the child. I think he was with a woman merely to produce a child .

I could play Devil's advocate and say maybe he would have been a good father, but hanging a baby off a balcony floors up be lies that too

Even if a person refuses to believe in the sexual aspect, surely its undeniable that the way he treated those boys was abusive? Love bombing them, manipulating them into doing what he wanted ("if you love me you'll sleep in the bed", crying to the mothers about why dont you trust me etc), taking them out of school and away from their peers and dragging them around the world, only to drop them once the next "special friend" comes along. Somehow the Jackson stans turn a blind eye to all this too though. I just don't understand what makes this man so special that he was literally able to get away with abusing children in front of the entire world, and even blatantly described his methods, and still has people defending him.

To add to it, that type of pedophile tells themselves that the relationships with the boys are mutually beneficial so they're actually helping and doing a good thing and it's just society that is the problem.

Now whether they actually believe that or just try to pretend they do is another story but given his obvious Messiah complex and the way all he seemed to talk about was about how he was abused and how he's the best ever at helping people I would imagine he very much convinced himself there was nothing wrong with what he was doing.

Yes I have thought that too. And he also made the kids feel responsible for him because he was lonely and so on, what a weight to put on little kids shoulders.

It seems that people think that grooming behaviour without a sexual component is ok, but the grooming side of it can do just as much if not more damage than the sexual abuse, to be made to feel so special by the most famous man in the world and then just replaced like that once you get to a certain age.

He was also with Lisa Marie because he wanted to look like a heterosexual man after the Jordie Chandler accusations.

He paraded her at the VMAs in 1994 and kissed her on stage saying something like 'and they said this wouldn't last'...even though he knew Lisa Marie was uncomfortable with it.

He said he would walk around holding baby dolls crying because she wouldn't have a baby...he also told her if she wouldn't have his baby that Debbie Rowe would, what a manipulative fuck. Story of his life though.

I watched a documentary recently where he held another baby out the window, it might have been Prince, Debbie was there, seemed just as dangerous as the balcony dangling. You can only see from inside the room but from that angle it looked dangerous.

Ah here's a longer clip so there's quite a big ledge (or whatever it's called) but still, it's anxiety inducing even watching it.

Yeh ive read a lot of the Lisa/Priscilla/Michael relationship dynamics

Lisa said he could be mesmerising, so no surprise there. Apparently the baby voice he affected wasnt there in private life and he was very intelligent. She hadn't spoken badly really about him but yes told the story of him begging to have his child (Elvis the Kings grandchild and the prince of pops son/daughter, what a result eh)

The telling thing she did say without guile was she was asked if they had a normal marriage and she answered

When he's in town we hang out together yes 😅

Priscilla loathed him, probably had him sussed.

Oh my god! That’s awful. Also that baby looks white as white can be!

Yes she didn't really say anything bad about him but I think it's very clear it was a complete headfuck of a relationship, she said something like he was a master at manipulating the media and puppeteering and that due to that she was never sure of his feelings for her or if he loved her until after he died.

..but people often only think of the good after someone dies, she was never going to get closure then so easier to give it to herself!

And I also saw the clip where she said the persona that he gives off (plus the voice) is not who he really is at all.

Priscilla definitely had him sussed!!

I don’t know if it’s already been said but when they tried to discredit Star and Gavin’s mom by making out she was only after the money as she had sued someone before I thought, surely it is possible for both to be true?! That MJ DID abuse her son and that maybe she was after money? I don’t get how the defence can create such a false dichotomy.

Likewise, there were many who hung around with him as young boys and said “nothing happened” - well maybe it didn’t. Abusers don’t tend to abuse everyone. Just people they think are easy targets. Or maybe they were threatened and sworn to secrecy.

I thought Gavin’s family had always maintained that they wouldn’t accept a pay off anyway? Hence there was a trial.

The way that MJ answers questions about his conduct around children is very telling. People are ‘ignorant’ if they question it and ‘who’s Jack the Ripper in the room?’ a ridiculous straw man of an argument.

And surely if you're going to use prior lawsuits as proof of something then the same logic should also apply to Jackson? He had been accused before so therefore must be guilty this time?

IGNORANT 😂😂

Yes, all this 'I would never harm a child', but that type of pedophile refuses to accept they're harming kids.

But of course the fans carry on this nonsense and try to make out that those who doubt him are awful and it 'says more about them than it does about MJ' that their thoughts would go there.

No it really does not, don't be so ridiculous!

Why not watch it and see for yourself? It’s available to watch for free on YouTube.