Is society becoming more hostile to children?

[MsFrumble]

Why does society feel like it’s becoming increasingly hostile to children? And why is voicing anti-child views or politics becoming more acceptable—or is it not, and there’s just a lot of online noise about it?

I’m not talking about choosing not to have children, that is obviously fine and good.
But there does seem to be a growing tendency to feel it is okay to openly describe children as at best an inconvenience and at worst a blight; to argue they should be excluded from public spaces unless they behave like adults or are tightly controlled; and to view children as “adults in training” rather than as distinct individuals with their own needs and rights.

Children are a highly vulnerable group, with no power and distinct rights in law—the right to play, education, protection, and so on. We were all once children, and unless you take a fairly nihilistic view, most people would agree that how we treat them matters because they are the future.

The material reality / politics around supporting kids is also quite grim: exorbitant nursery fees, schools under pressure, health visiting and early years support underfunded, maternity care in crisis, a lack of youth services like centres for teenagers etc etc

So why does society feel so anti kid?

Society is just becoming more hostile in general, I think 😔

Anti-kid in what sense? Children have (rightfully so) more protections than ever, child labour, exploitation and abuse that was commonplace (like corporal punishment) is being fought against, outlawed, etc. Parents are (generally) also more responsible about the number of children they have, which ultimately is good for the existing children too.

I’m not saying everything is perfect, obviously it isn’t, but I don’t understand your point. I don’t think expecting parents to look after their children in public spaces is being anti-children.

UK society is weird at the moment

People are more vocal about poor or non existent parenting.

This. The people who fret about it are generally the parents doing their best already. The people who really need to take it on board are blissfully unaware.

@OneTimeThingToday But if that is happening that’s not a child’s fault is it? And if people are concerned that kids are being harmed by poor parenting, shouldn’t the logical next step be to fund social services and child protection and sure start centres more to help kids and parents, and then to make nurseries and schools better and more affordable so that vulnerable / damaged / badly parented kids are getting support and help there

I think it’s this. People are ruder, less willing to accommodate others - especially the disabled, elderly and children.

I'd suggest that it's not kids themselves society can sometimes seem hostile to, but the increasing amount of poor parenting these days.

There’s a distinct difference between abused children and those whose parents who just allow their children to run wild. Parents need to take responsibility for their own children. The behaviour of some children is shocking.

Abused children are helped in most cases.

Where is funding going to come from to assist badly behaved children?

Children that are generally well behaved aren’t typically seen as a problem don’t think. It’s when children are allowed to behave in a way that disturbs other’s enjoyment that the problems occur.

Agree, but equally I hear plenty of people saying (irl and online) things like

• I hate kids, why would anyone have kids, kids should be kept out of xx space until they learn to behave (like adults).

If you replaced kids with elderly people, disabled people - other vulnerable or minority group - in those sentences, it would be taboo and unacceptable- rightly

Yes! 👏🏻

I’m not surprised society is less tolerant, most kids these days are badly behaved and badly parented.

I went away camping for a couple of days last week and had my break ruined by a group of badly behaved teenagers swearing loudly at all hours, kicking footballs against cars and tents, and setting fires under trees.

Then there was the utterly pathetic parenting of younger children who were allowed to scream at the top of their voices for ages and run in and out of other people’s tents whilst mummy and daddy followed them around smiling indulgently.

Don’t think social services are going to get involved just because the parents are wet lettuces, they’ve got enough to do with kids whose parents are a genuine danger to them.

This.
I'm pretty fed up of having to deal with the consequences of other people's bad parenting.
I avoid other people's children wherever possible now because so many parents just sit by whilst their kids disturb others.

I pick parking spaces, plane seats, pubs and theatre seats with avoidance of families in mind. I never used to have to.

Because they get away with murder these days and people are sick of it

Can you give some examples of anti child behaviour in general by society ?
I cannot relate to it.
I can see you have some around provision of childcare and costs but any others?

British society has always been notably curmudgeonly about children tbh. Every summer there’s at least one MN thread where someone’s having a shitfit about kids using pavement chalks, for example. People get a kick out of being as uptight and humourless as possible. It’s annoying, but easily ignored.

But kids are indeed ‘adults in training’ who learn through play and education as well as by socialising with others. Not all of this training can be farmed out to nurseries, schools etc. Much of it needs to be done by parents but I’m afraid many of these parents are not living up to their responsibilities.

Because they are so much more annoying these days. In the past there was a good chance a parent would at least attempt to quell the poor behaviour but so rarely happens now

Threads where people say they have to go to restaurants to teach their children how to behave well when dining and others just have to put up with it. How about teaching your children how to sit at a table at home first?!

Yes I think you are right and a lot of these posts prove your point.

Absolutely.

As a nurse the way I get spoken to by some parents is disgusting. I am human. Please talk to me like one.

You expect the people voicing anti-child views to do all that? 😳

I meant, to some extent I agree with you. Although if kids should not behave in a way that disturbs others enjoyment, should adults behave in a way that disturbs kids enjoyment? Why is one groups “enjoyment” more important than the other, especially when adults are way more capable of restraint and politeness and tolerance than kids are, by virtue of their developmental stage.

I supposed it depends on how you define good and bad behaviour. Personally I do not think we should see kids being a bit loud, excitable, joyful, wanting to play and run around a bit, finding it hard to wait, chattering, showing signs of distress or boredom in environments like planes, busses, restaurants - as “bad” behaviour. Yes it’s not appropriate in some settings and their parents need to step in, but in some settings it is fine and even if it can be a bit annoying, it’s surely just the price of living in a society that includes kids.

Because behaving like that - boisterous, chatty, having less control of your emotions than an adult - is not “bad” it is totally normal for kids and is in line with what they are developmentally wired to do.

Im probably going to sound like (maybe I am) a grumpy old woman but i think the opposite - lots of people behave as if their behaviour happens in isolation and doesnt impact anyone else :

people on public transport listening/watching stuff either without headphones or with shit headphones so you can hear anyway, or having loud facetime or speaker conversations

People walking down the street and seemingly unable to move a few inches or walk in single file for a couple of seconds while people are passing. Or parents letting very young kids veer around on bikes and scooters on pavements in really busy areas so its impossible to pass. Or letting older kids use scooters in a supermarket.

Thinking every cafe/shop/pub/holiday cottage must accomodate their dog

I dont hate other people or children, but quite a lot of the time they are really annoying!