Is society becoming more hostile to children?

[MsFrumble]

Why does society feel like it’s becoming increasingly hostile to children? And why is voicing anti-child views or politics becoming more acceptable—or is it not, and there’s just a lot of online noise about it?

I’m not talking about choosing not to have children, that is obviously fine and good.
But there does seem to be a growing tendency to feel it is okay to openly describe children as at best an inconvenience and at worst a blight; to argue they should be excluded from public spaces unless they behave like adults or are tightly controlled; and to view children as “adults in training” rather than as distinct individuals with their own needs and rights.

Children are a highly vulnerable group, with no power and distinct rights in law—the right to play, education, protection, and so on. We were all once children, and unless you take a fairly nihilistic view, most people would agree that how we treat them matters because they are the future.

The material reality / politics around supporting kids is also quite grim: exorbitant nursery fees, schools under pressure, health visiting and early years support underfunded, maternity care in crisis, a lack of youth services like centres for teenagers etc etc

So why does society feel so anti kid?

I was at a lovely outdoor event at the weekend. Picnic tables set up all around a grass area. Lots of families. Our family had a table and at one point a child of about 4/5 with a huge stick came up to our table and started whacking the table as hard as he could. We all had drinks and food on the table. My BIL said nicely oh no please don’t do that we have drinks here and he looked about for the parents. They were at the table behind us smiling at him. BIL made eye contact and they laughed and shrugged. He tried to remove the stick from the child and the parents just kept laughing. Now the child was screaming no at BIL and trying to hit him with it. Parents still laughing but eventually dad came over (still laughing) and saying come on now let’s not hit people. But let him keep the stick. They moved soon after thankfully. We had kids with us at our table (6 and 8) who were enjoying the day including running about at times but wouldn’t dream of trying to hit tables and people with huge sticks! And if they did they’d have been taken away!

I’m not anti child. I’m anti that type of behaviour and parents.

Yes, I agree OP. @Iheartmysmartis claiming that most kids are badly behaved and badly parented. That is a sweeping statement and like most sweeping statements, there could be an element of truth but I suspect it is vastly more complicated than that:

Possible reasons I can think of for more hostility towards children:

1. a lot of people are stressed with the he cost of living and overcrowded housing , live in busy noisy crowded accommodation. They go out somewhere craving calmness and peace and there are children behaving unpredictably and noisily
2. As a society, we value queing, restraint, quietness- small children tend not to do this
3. children no longer have freedom to roam. I used to go out all day up to about 1.5 miles from my house when I was under 11. That was the 1970s. Parents don’t allow this any more so children have less opportunity to let off steam.
4. social media often portrays children as out of control and there is a also narrative that it is common for parents use ADHD as an excuse for bad behaviour instead of disciplining their children.
5. There is virtually no support for parents who are struggling.
6. Mental health support form children is practically non-existent. It is more necessary now - the world js vastly more complicated and we have just lived through a pandemic

Valid point, some of childhood is about learning to be an adult, but a lot of that learning is going to involve not being like an adult - e.g. being loud, being upset, being boisterous, making mistakes etc. and this seems to be something a lot of adults find hard to tolerate, or feel should happen entirely behind closed doors, rather than a natural part of being a kid.

I do think kids aren’t JUST, adults in training though. Kids are also living through their own legitimate stage of life, which does involve playing, being overexcited, having strong emotions etc. Isn’t it depressing if we just see childhood as the time when our purpose is just learn to be economically productive, well behaved adults, rather than as its own intrinsic stage.

Setting fires under trees and kicking footballs into tents, fine - agreed not good.

But young kids, on a (presumably) child friendly camp site, who have been taken on holiday running around tents and screaming - aka being excited. That’s normal childhood behaviour.

Because the delightful child whose running around screaming his/her head off isn't actually delightful. We used to get this at work when customers brought several kids in with them to an appointment. Kids get bored, parents just keep shouting 'pack it in'. Kids carry on, no one can hear themselves think, kid falls over, parent tells staff they are at fault. We've had toilets blocked /flooded because the little dears are chucking stuff down them. I mean it's not a playground.
Look, I really do love kids, I had them myself. But if you are going to take them where it's not suitable or you can't be arsed to supervise them, them adults are going to complain. And some places aren't suitable.

Running around tents is dangerous.
THAT is why it shouldn't happen.

It's not endearing, it's not kids being kids it's DANGEROUS

But things like Sure Start centres, health visitors, DO teach parenting, and provide services for overwhelmed parents who are struggling to parent, like free baby groups, signposting to women’s aid and other services, vouchers for baby milk, support to access child support etc

Access to quality, affordable childcare also does help parenting, because as well as supporting children in those settings who might not get as much support at home, it allows parents to work, retain a career and support their kids throughout childhood

Children are becoming more hostile and feral.

My parents said 80s where we lived were very unfriendly to children - including the primary school and younger kids. They frequently couldn't eat in cafe -we only had that once - it wasn't the stated reason they claimed to be closed despite open to previous people in queue.

So it could be moving back to what it used to be.

It could also be modern parenting - there are so many more out of control kids about with ineffective parents - it's often a pain to be round.

Though agree with PP a lot of public behavior has also gone down hill - there's often a complete disregard for others.

It is awful to be pre-judged - had it a few times and alway directed at me not DH - even when they later make a point of saying how lovely our kids behavior was. It put me on edge and made situation more stressful for me - and the subsquent praise never made that better.

I think only case I didn't mind was a very blunt volunteer doing national trust small property tour - it was just us and she visibly wilted. However she said to DH and I upon leaving ask anyone they'd tell you I don't do kids at all but yours not only well behaved but also asking quite interesting relevant questions my heart sank when I saw you all but it's been really fun.

Um no, small children running around where there are tents set up is bloody dangerous. Ropes to trip over, people using camping stoves to boil water and cook, lit BBQs and hot coals for starters. Plus cars and camper vans driving around the site. That’s bloody bad parenting in my book. We took DS camping from when he was around 3 years old and he knew even then that he wasn’t allowed to scream endlessly or annoy other campers.

Good manners seem to have gone out the window lately.

Really? Why is it dangerous? Sure they might trip over a guy rope, or bump into a tent but they could trip on a stick or bump into a bench or a person in a park. What is so dangerous about a camp site?

Generally as a society we’re much more protective of children. The Children Act and other legislation has bought in many protections and rights for children, and this is a great thing. When I was young children were hit by teachers, relationships between teachers and teenagers were turned a blind eye to and it was common to see mid teen girls with men in their twenties and no one batted an eye. So on the whole I think we’re more accepting as a society that kids are real people who need protection. We’re continually concerned about kids eg current focus on impact of social media. So I don’t think society is more hostile as such, but I do think there are parenting issues from a minority that need addressing and the cutting of spaces for young people to be able to spend time together in an unstructured way is unhelpful

I don’t agree that this is the case. When we grew up we were told Children should be seen and not heard. We wouldn’t dare act up in public.
Nowadays I see kids running rings around their parents as ‘gentle parenting’ is used as an excuse not to set boundaries and discipline.

Children don't need to scream to have fun and be kids. The occasional scream of excitement, sure, but that's not what we're talking about. Parents believing that constant screaming is acceptable behaviour is exactly why society is becoming more hostile to children.

They could knock a just boiled camping kettle
or tread on something sharp that an adult had left in a place they knew where but didn’t think to tell the whole campsite

there might be a dog which gets startled by sudden movements

or medicine not locked away because you are allowed to have your tent as you want it

People have always said things like the only children they like are their own, so I don't think it's a new thing, I think we just interact with more people now eg Mumsnet, so we hear (see) those things said more often.

I think there is definitely a "noise" element. On the internet, extreme opinions get the most engagement.

But it also has to do with the "consumer" mindset in public spaces. We are all conditioned to view ourselves as consumers. If someone pays £15 for a quiet coffee or £100 for a nice dinner, they feel they have purchased an experience. In this mindset, a crying toddler isn't just a child being a child; they are a "defective product", an interruption.

When public spaces become monetized experiences, where you have to pay to partake in anything, even looking at a view, the grace we used to extend to one another as a community evaporates.

Also, I think that people are exhausted, and our reserves are low. A screaming child in a supermarket can tip you over the threshold of what you're willing to tolerate if you are already running on fumes.

There's also the boomers, with their "I've earned my peace" mentality. It's ironic, because the are the generation that arguably had the most social support while growing up and raising families.

I completely agree. It really struck me when we were travelling in Italy recently. People were just so much more pleasant to children. I hadn't realised quite how awful attitudes have become in the UK until I experienced the difference.

I do think you have a point there. It's not fair to dislike kids themselves, even badly behaved ones, if they are the way they are because of poor parenting. It's the fault of the parents not the kids.

(Usual disclaimers obviously apply, i.e. I'm not referring to different behaviours that are due to disability or neurodivergence, I realise that's different territory.)

Although I do think the rose tinted glasses of yesteryear parenting needs to subside as well.

There are many dreadful 40/50 year olds who were parented by the 70/80 cohort so it’s not like that generation raised a perfect generation either.

You've never impaled yourself on a tent peg have you?

It smarts.

People are more susceptible to the propaganda spouted about the increasing failings in education, that are highly likely linked to decades of poor decisions resulting in a narrowed curriculum and inflexible environment. This in turn is leading to more children needing diagnoses because in many cases the basic needs of many children are no longer being met.

Society is anti human right now.

P. S I'm a boomer, I had no help bringing up my kids, unless you count paying for nursery /childminder.

There might also be a resentment that they themselves never got to be a parent.

There are increasingly more men and women who just don’t have the circumstances to have a child during their fertile years, or many never become a grandparent, and that will in some cases express itself in an annoyance of children being around. If nothing else through lack of personal experience of trying to soothe screaming baby in a public space and nothing is working.

If you don't understand the danger - not to mention bloody nuisance - you're not a suitable parent.