Wendy Duffy heart breaking but understandable

[youalright]

What a brave lady i hope she's holding her son right now.

Not me. I think the state of mental health care is horrendously underfunded, that there's not enough support for people who need it, and that this new and growing focus on suicide as a solution won't help improve it, but will probably make it worse.

Precisely. If they had not ended their own lives they might be able to make a valuable contribution to the argument (or countless other things).

I saw someone post the same thing on Facebook. I hope she's holding her son right now. She isn't. They are both dead. Her family are shattered - and maybe people would understand more if they had themselves lost someone to suicide. My family have been through it twice. But this family have had to see it play out all over the press as well. I can't comprehend what they must be feeling right now.

The people left behind never get over losing someone in this way. That I can assure you

Her family have had to see all of this plastered all over Facebook. Twitter. The daily mail at least three times. Apparently one of her brothers is too devastated to talk. Because she couldn't tell her family the exact date she was going to die - or under UK law they could have been charged with assisting her - so they'll have found out just before it was plastered all over the press.

There are clinics making money from peoples grief and misery. She had to pay 10k to end her life. The people who run clinics like this are fucking ghouls in my view

People absolutely have the right not to go on if that's how they truly feel. But people making money from peoples suffering and misery is completely abhorrent in my view.

Valuable to whom? Nobody is under any obligation to provide 'value' to you, or society.

You're the one who first mentioned 'valuable' in terms of 'valuable experiences' that 'can't be heard' because the people aren't here, meaning it's not a 'balanced argument'.

I believe PP was just responding in kind.

Yes the publicity side to it does seem odd tbh but she obviously wanted to get her side across in her own words in case it was twisted in the aftermath that she wasn't thinking straight and failed by the NHS or whatever.

'People absolutely have the right not to go on if that's how they truly feel. But people making money from peoples suffering and misery is completely abhorrent in my view.'

Well funeral directors charge thousands too but we tend not say they are making money from people's suffering and misery, rather covering their costs.

These clinics will have to pay their legal and medical experts thousands. Have you ever had to pay a solicitor even for a bog standard house purchase? Costs an arm and a leg and for complex cases like these I can indeed imagine their fees are astronomical.

I'm all ears if anyone has any information that solicitors and medical fees are only 500 quid in Switzerland and the clinic is pocketing £9500? Their site does say clearly that it is a non profit organisation though.

I know my bf chose to end his life and I blamed myself for years i still do maybe if we could of had the conversation prior I wouldn't of felt so much guilt. I also found him which is an image I will never get out of my head and still get flashbacks about again Wendy's family didn't have to suffer that. People kill themselves everyday I think if you are going to do it anyway this is least traumatic way for your family and friends

They are valuable, undoubtedly so - but no one is entitled to them

No one said they were?

"If they had not ended their own lives they might be able to make a valuable contribution to the argument (or countless other things)"

What was your point here if not to suggest they should have made those contributions? The fact that they could have made them is not in question.

I didn't say that, so I don't know.

I'm just pointing out that you're the one saying their experiences are valuable, but can't be shared because they're dead. So you introduced both the concept of value, and the irony of them being unable to contribute to the argument.

It's not irony, it's just a fact.

If you're not sure what's being said, perhaps contributing isn't the right thing for you at this time.

she was assessed by several professionals who agreed she wasnt to depressed - I don’t agree clinic founders are motivated - I understand they are very thorough because they can’t be seen to enable her decision

you are making an awful
lot of assumptions - you can’t know more than the next women where she was at

I just don’t get it - forcing people to suffer because YOU cant let go of hope when they have

Can you not trust they would have explored all this - it’s not for you to say

you sound so pompous

I'm not the one who was confused. You were. But fair enough; I'll stop engaging with you, then.

I know this thread has had different viewpoints, but one thing seems to unite everyone here - everyone is expressing that they care for Wendy Duffy. People care that she was in pain, they care about her story and about her right to make decisions about her life.

I think I’m going to leave this debate for now. There is an awful lot of insulting coming from certain posters that isn’t necessary or helpful to the discussion. And a lot of misunderstandings of basic words and concepts that make communicating about complex issues impossible.

I hope if anyone is reading this thread that is contemplating suicide that you reach out. You might not think you have anyone to reach out to - I have felt the same - but there are people out there who care even if they don’t know you. I am one of them. The Samaritans are always available 24 hours a day, every day of the year.

I hope you reported these alleged insults? I've rtft and can't see any just a bit of unpleasant hectoring of the op in the early posts.

It is of course an emotive subject. We all will have experience of bereavement, mental health and suicide, though hopefully not all directly. Obviously we will have a variety of opinions and that is fine.

I respect and understand Wendy Duffy's choice just as I understand other people will not and will criticise her. It is life, we all have different views.

As an aside you don't need to announce you are not going to comment again while making patronising comments about alleged 'misunderstandings of basic words' <which is ironically insulting!> just hide it and move on. It's what I do.

Wtf did I say

That would be great, thank you so much.

Nothing. I meant the only unpleasantary I saw were a few posters having a go at you in some earlier posts .

I meant hectoring at the op, apologies it wasn't clear.

Oh ok fair enough xx

So you're trying to tell me that a woman who is so stricken with grief, four years after the death of her son that she has no joy in life, feels numb, and is just waiting to die, isn't depressed?

Considering one of the most well-known clinics wouldn't sign off on it, and she had to go to another, and considering they're paying her, and believe in what they're doing, I feel it's reasonable to consider them biased.

You're also making a lot of assumptions.

It's not about 'forcing people to suffer', it's about not normalising killing people because they're sad. If you're in favour of this for the reasons most people have put forward, then in order to be consistent, you'd have to be in favour of the assisted suicide of a young mother with PND, or a young man who has lost his girlfriend, etc, and that seems very troubling.

It's a glorification of suicide that sits very uneasily with me.

Nobody is glorying suicide, we are saying if people wnat to end their lives this is a better way

the clinics didnt refuse - she didnt meet their criteria of terminal illness

yes i think you can have enormous grief and not be depressed

grief is the context of whats happened, its not depression

noone is killing anyone but Wendy - she paid to have a dignified death that she could prepare her family for instead of passing on the pain with a hanging that they werent expecting and never got to find out why etc and be tortured with not knowing

You have contradicted yourself by painting a picture of a women you say is “stricken with grief, four years after the death of her son that she has no joy in life, feels numb, and is just waiting to die” and then later say people are being “killed” for just being sad

So now we have the context..you felt the change and now believe everyone is the same, well they are not, especially where grief is concerned

i didnt read anywhere that wendy dunn felt uncared for by others, on the contrary, she had a great support and family network

she didnt want to carry on because of her grief over losing her partner then her only son. We all have to die, she chose to go when she was ready