Wendy Duffy heart breaking but understandable

[youalright]

What a brave lady i hope she's holding her son right now.

Absolutely. There are so many irresponsible takes on here. I'm honestly really surprised that on a parenting forum, when people most likely know just how common suicidal ideation is amongst young people (these days especially), that they'd be so keen to praise suicide as an acceptable solution to the problem of sadness.

It's also interesting to see people argue that it's less acceptable for younger women to kill themselves than menopausal women, or that it's acceptable only if a woman can't have more children, or that it's acceptable for sadness over a situation that can't be changed.

Ultimately, what I'm getting from their takes is: In this particular situation, they think it's acceptable because she's pretty old, and can't have a replacement child, and it would be less understandable or acceptable if she was younger and fertile. It's very uncomfortable reasoning, implying as it does that a woman has less inherent value or reason to live once she's past menopause.

It’s interesting that most people that are agreeing with this are saying “I would never be able to get over the death of a child” when in all honesty you’ve never known that pain. Others here do know, and somehow have managed to heal to some extent and nobody is listening to those people.

It seems that lots of people have already made up their mind and can’t imagine anything beyond that. I don’t think there is really any point in a debate at this point.

@Gloriia and at her age she knows herself best this will have been the most traumatic thing she's ever had but...it won't have been her only trauma .
She knows herself.

As someone seems to have taken offence to me agreeing with your comment, and reported it - to rephrase:

Yes. I think your comments on this thread regarding suicide have been irresponsible, and could cause harm if someone with suicidal ideation was reading them.

Many threads on here could trigger someone over all kinds of nasty things.

There are many websites and chat forums where people with such thoughts go MN isn't the to to place for this.

@OneFineDay22 becusee maybe this lady just didn't want too and her age id say she's got a good idea what life would mean without her child and she clearly didn't want too.

Yes and it's utterly sick how a pp is rephrasing that we are suggesting menopausal women don't count or some such.

Yss they do count but she knew exactly what she was capable of and living without her son wasn't it. Imo that isnt brave so much but it is absolutely understandable.

I don’t think anyone is saying it isn’t understandable that she felt so bereft, but what some of us are saying is that even she doesn’t know how she might have felt next year.

And I also think it is a valid point that people seem fine about the idea of suicide for older people and not younger people - isn’t that patronising to younger people? I can tell you when I was younger I thought I knew how I would feel about this or that or the other, and now I know I can be wrong even about myself - we all can. That’s not patronising, it’s acknowledging the human condition - you can’t know how you would feel until you get there.

Don't get it twisted, and blame your own words on me.

When I asked if a younger woman doing the same thing as Wendy would be just as understandable, you indicated that if a woman could have another child, then killing herself would be less justifiable.

So: you've made it clear that being fertile makes a woman killing herself over the loss of her child less understandable, and being menopausal makes it more understandable.

That was your opinion, and if you don't like what can be inferred from that, that's not my problem.

'I don’t think anyone is saying it isn’t understandable that she felt so bereft, but what some of us are saying is that even she doesn’t know how she might have felt next year.And I also think it is a valid point that people seem fine about the idea of suicide for older people and not younger people'

Grief goes on forever but 4 years would've given her some idea to her quality of life and whether she felt she could find happiness again.

Suicide isn't 'fine' for old or young but when someone has lost their only child with no chance of ever being a dm again it is understandable that they don't want to carry on living that very specific and unrecoverable torment.

Including women who don’t manage to conceive?

What?! This was a very specific situation and the context is relevant. Those who 'don't manage to conceive' are in no way relevant to this discussion.

To lose an only dc, to have decided that the torment of that after 4yrs makes life unbearable is something I can understand.

Women who suffer losses and struggle with conceiving can do so for years and feel devastated and empty, and the end result is facing the rest of their lives with no DC. Don’t you see the relevance of this comparison?

Good afternoon, all. Just putting our head round the door with a reminder for people to perhaps take a moment before posting, so that things don't descend into personal attacks.
Thank you.

My son survived but he very nearly didn’t and that was traumatising enough. I developed PTSD as a result.

I’m barely over him almost dying 2 years later. I couldn’t imagine how bad it would be if he had actually died.

I’m sorry this happened to you. I hope you have support and are able to access trauma therapy as I’m sure this is difficult for you.

My son nearly succeeded in ending his life 3 years ago. I really don't know how I have coped to be honest. Somehow I have, but the panic hasn't really left.
Sending you a gentle hug.

Yes I know. Exactly. My point was logically, you'd expect them - religious zealots - to be in favour of Assisted Dying, because after all, there's a heaven to go to (or something). But they're not, as you say. It's not consistent.

Well some extremist Muslims think suicide is a way to Janna and virgins etc, but as you say the Christian Church are very much about controlling what people do or don't do, so in the AD dying case, are Against AD. Weird really.

You were talking about strangers. As was I. Your thinking is backwards of course - no empathy at all, selfish. If a stranger wants to benefit from AD in Switzerland it is none of your business. Keep your nose out of their life.

Its not at all weird. Suicide is the sin of despair, of not trusting God that he's control and his plan is perfect despite our current circumstances. So it's perfectly consistent that people in the christian faith don't agree with it. I can't speak to other faiths that I don't know a lot about but I think it's not suicide in and of itself that brings rewards, but death in an act of martyrdom, so it's not the same thing.

I think similarly. The case of the young quadraplegic Spanish woman was rather different, I think, because she was dependant and in a care facility and so was unable to take her own life.

Having said that, I can't support the UK state facilitating euthanasia for distressed people. I do, though, want UK doctors to be able to alleviate the suffering of terminally ill people, including prescribing doses of pain relief which will result in earlier death. It's wrong in my view not to. I also think there should be far more discussion about opting out of 'treatment' to prolong poor quality life. But the Assisted Dying bill has been overwhelmed by too many competing demands, including from people who clearly wish it could be extended later.

This woman's distress was clearly unbearable, other people in her position wouldn't necessarily have made the same choice, I wish she could have been able to live with her grief or failing that been able to provide a swift and painless suicide for herself, but not all troubles are solvable.

Ah I see. thank you for explaining, I appreciate it. So Assisted Dying is seen as a 'sin'. And the last thing a Christian wants to do is commit a sin against God. Because God is in control and he should not be angered. They are controlled by God, and they think everyone else should be too, or else They are committing a sin. Wow. The view of an unproven figure is more important than an individuals' own feelings / thoughts / views about themselves. Fascinating.

@Northermcharn actually if you’re interested, the Christian position on sin is that everyone is a sinner. There is no man without sin. I am not saying I am a Christian. I am just saying that is the Christian position.

I have found it a little odd on this thread that apparently non-religious people are saying things like “she is with her son now”. Which really doesn’t make sense.

Thank you. I do have support and therapy, lots of therapy.

Sending you a gentle hug too.

I feel the exact same way. I look back to 2 years ago and I don't know how I got through it either.

My son had cancer and had severe complications. He's here and in remission and doing well now but is permanently disabled as a result. Every time he sneezes or coughs or has any kind of pain or bruise, I'm convinced the cancer is back. Learning to live this new normal is hard but worth it because of my son, I'm not sure it would be without him.