Is this neglect ?

[Rainbowfish1]

I'm really worried about my niece , age. 4, and don't know if I'm overthinking.
My brother got her mum pregnant after a short relationship, they split shortly after niece was born, he pays maintenance regularly via the CMS but apart from that has little day to day involvement, ( yes I know, DB' s a dick). He's 45 and nieces mum is 25.

-My niece is meant to go to nursery 1-6, 2 afternoons a week during term time, ( nursery stretches funding so this includes holidays). My friend works there and says she's always absent , misses at least one session a fortnight, often more, ( obviously nursery can't enforce attendance as nursery is not legally compulsory). When she is in , session starts at 13:00, but frequently not dropped till 13.30/ 13.45 etc.

• When she's not at nursery, ( and she rarely is !) they go nowhere. Literally nowhere. Nursery is Tuesday and Friday, and between they don't go out at all. Absolutely lovely shared garden and play area in their block of flats but don't go there. They don't leave the house for days on end. Sister in law is addicted to gaming etc and basically happy to stay in.
• Sister-in-law doesn't brush her teeth as "niece doesn't like it ", what 4 year old likes having their teeth brushed...
• Niece is only dressed on nursery days, ( where she does seem to dress her appropriately), she stays in her PJs for days on end otherwise. Whenever I visit on a non nursery day , niece is in her pyjamas, even at 2/3pm. Sister-in-law says what's the point in dressing niece if they are not going out.
• Sister in law is very overweight, basically live off take aways each night, ( only healthy meal she gets is the dinner 2 x a week at nursery).
• The flat is filthy. Five cats in a two bed flat , stinks of cat urine whenever I go round, litter trays always overflowing. Extremely cluttered and no space for niece to play.
• Sister-in-law smokes weed daily, ( she says only when niece is in bed ), but the whole flat stinks of it.

I know the simple answer is to report to soical, but I'm worried they won't do anything and it will just end up withe and my parents being cut off
Does this cross the line to reportable neglect?

A grown woman that needs to get her act together. I’m 25 too and I have 3 kids, had my first at 16.

If you do report focus on the unbrushed teeth and poor hygiene not her weight or wearing pjs in the day as they don’t care about that

So what is your best case scenario here? Niece gets taken into care? You know, that isn’t a great start to life either. You don’t seem to actually want to help - if you do - why don’t you offer to take niece out - relieve her of some of the pressure? Sounds like righteous condemnation from the three of you from the sidelines. No, she doesn’t sound like a good parent, but take her out of the picture and what are you left with? Your brother sounds like an absolute arsehole.

Nursery should have safeguarding policy in place which thet need to follow properly if there are concerns they would have everything logged too. You can report to your local safeguarding board there is a way of phoning and saying your concerns even if you think is minor. The flags are the fact she isnt going to nursery when she should but If there have been reports from nursery they should be logging this. Unfortunately its not as easy as report and things get sorted but there is early help services etc that may be in you local area that can advise.

I'm surprised the nursery haven't already noted this as a safeguarding concern. Persistent absence is one of the first red flags and if the flat is that dirty and the mother is smoking that much weed, the poor child is bound to smell. They normally do teeth brushing at nursery too, so I'd imagine they would likely have picked up on her poor dental hygiene. Speaking to the nursery about your concerns, asking them to be more vigilant, and start a record of concerns might be a good way of avoiding having to contact social work yourself. They shouldn't disclose information about the family to you, but if they are aware of the bigger picture, they may be more inclined to involve social work. There does seem to be a significant degree of neglect, but it could be difficult to maintain a relationship with the family if the report comes from you, though it doesn't seem like you can let things continue as is.

Yes report it.

But also, she's your flesh and blood. Can you take this little girl out for fresh air even once or twice a week? Can your parents?

I would do that if it were my niece. I know we all have lives but she needs a responsible adult (and it sounds like that's you) to step up for her. It cannot only be up to the government to step in.

It sounds like the both need some help. I would raise a safeguarding concern and take it from there.
She may be on weed at the moment, but that can lead to other drugs being taken. Your niece will be breathing it in, and her teeth will already be rotting. My sister let her son not brush his teeth because he didn't like it. By the age of 7, he had extensive dental problems.

Report her.

Doesn’t sound an environment in which a child is going to thrive.
any concerned regarding development? Meeting milestones? If mum is engaged with gaming all the time is she spending anytime stimulating her daughter?
there is the risk of toxoplasmosis if cats are using the property as a toilet, any medical presentations to the GP or A&E?
ultimately the main thing children services will consider is the use of cannabis in the home and the detrimental effect this has on your niece. The threshold for intervention is a lot higher than most of us would like.

an anonymous ref could be made or offer to take her out of that situation 1-2 days a week & a weekend per month.
in all likelihood this would warrant a S17 (CIN) assessment and family will be called upon to support anyway if possible.

short answer - ref anonymously

The issue here is that while OP wants to report it, it'll be obvious who reported it. Or do all her visitors and friends complain of the smell

The basic needs of the child are clearly not being met. I’m assuming there is no actual reason for the child missing nursery other than Mum can’t be bothered. The child is really missing out on interacting with other children, learning through play, getting exercise, stretching her legs, practising self care by washing hands and going to bathroom independently etc etc the benefits go on and on. I can predict that when the child goes to school she will continue to miss days and will be behind, her self esteem will suffer and she will find it hard in every way. You can’t let this go. You can call NSPCC anonymously.

It does actually sound very much like neglect, yes, and I'd certainly get advice from the NSPCC if not the safeguarding team at the council. That's not to say it's the mother's fault - it sounds like she could be suffering just as much as her child and not able to see the harm she's potentially causing. The safeguarding team should put, in place a team around the child arrangement to get help for them both.

I'm agreeing! I'm being sarcastic

Everytime you comment it gets worse...true crime in the background etc. Please report. Do you and your parents have the capacity to go for custody further down the line? I know that's a huge leap, but your niece is missing out on so much. Even simple things like the park, and she could end up with mental health issues, for example anxiety leaving the house, social problems (not.to mention poor physical health, tooth decay)etc. On the other hand, I feel bad for Mum who must be struggling. But she is putting her own needs first which is selfish. Is she open to help? It sounds like she doesn't want to parent either. Are her parents on the scene? Are they not helping her?

in my opinion these kind of glib assumptions and sweeping statements perpetuate the harmful trope that neurodiversity is a ‘trend’ and people are using it as an ‘excuse’ which ends up meaning people who have genuine support needs aren’t taken seriously.

I’m not saying this woman does or doesn’t have ADHD. There could be a myriad of reasons for a) this scenario and b) poor executive functioning. It isn’t exclusive to ADHD.

Your post is dangerous too IMO. I know someone who had her kids temporarily put in a care home after one and only visit because her house was a mess. She’d been getting over covid, was unable to clean because she was ill and the report made about her was a malicious one made ‘anonymously’ by her abusive ex to spite her, not because he had any real concerns. It took her 3 weeks to get her kids back when SS finally realised she was normally a brilliant mother and the report was malicious. But the damage was done, the kids were already traumatised by being removed and separated from each other, not knowing if they’d ever see their mum again. Some SS departments are better than others but I wouldn’t take the risk not knowing if you’re going to get a shit one or a decent one

No you don't.

You know someone who has told you that, and lied.

Social services don't take kids away for one visit to a messy house one time.

There are some good social workers. But of course bad ones to. And that 1 social worker can do alot of damage. Your friend will never forget that and neither will her children its with them for life and they won't ever trust again.

But then its said the courts decide if a child is put into care. Yes based on social workers reports. And professionals are often automatically believed over the mum.

because we have no idea if she does or doesn’t, both our opinions are valid. People unfortunately seem to think it’s ok to be rude when people like me talk about severe ADHD. I am sooooo bored of people going “I have ADHD and I don’t do that” or “why is everything using the excuse nuerodiverse nowadays”

we need to talk about it to broaden understanding. We need to talk about it so the diagnosis and symptom identification becomes more refined.

people have been suffering undiagnosed for years. Others have no idea how to respond to nuerodiversity. There’s no harm in talking about it.

Way to SPECTACULARLY miss the point I was making! 🤦🏼‍♀️

I would report because of the weed.

And ur in cloud cuckoo land if u think it’s not. Very glad that my local authority actually give a fk about the kids. I know thru experience.

But she is right. They wont swoop in and say "This place is a dump, there are too many cats, you smoke weed and dont brush DD's teeth so we are removing her". It will not happen.

She will be put a CIN program, if she agrees and she doesnt have to. Encouraged to change the state of the house, improve the personal hygiene and deal with the cats, signposted to other kinds of help. But if it doesnt get any worse.....chances are nothing will happen.

There are not enough foster carers for the kids suffering the worst kind of abuse to go to, never mind one like this.

Oh here we go. Mumsnet bingo - the classic armchair diagnosis of ADHD.

Honestly half of MN seem to live in a very privileged cloud. They seem blithely unaware of the numerous high profile cases of children being murdered by their caregivers even whilst being under the watch of social services.
The idea that by reporting the OP is going to single handedly ruin a family because social services will appear like some kind of SWAT team is embarrassing.