Is this neglect ?

[Rainbowfish1]

I'm really worried about my niece , age. 4, and don't know if I'm overthinking.
My brother got her mum pregnant after a short relationship, they split shortly after niece was born, he pays maintenance regularly via the CMS but apart from that has little day to day involvement, ( yes I know, DB' s a dick). He's 45 and nieces mum is 25.

-My niece is meant to go to nursery 1-6, 2 afternoons a week during term time, ( nursery stretches funding so this includes holidays). My friend works there and says she's always absent , misses at least one session a fortnight, often more, ( obviously nursery can't enforce attendance as nursery is not legally compulsory). When she is in , session starts at 13:00, but frequently not dropped till 13.30/ 13.45 etc.

• When she's not at nursery, ( and she rarely is !) they go nowhere. Literally nowhere. Nursery is Tuesday and Friday, and between they don't go out at all. Absolutely lovely shared garden and play area in their block of flats but don't go there. They don't leave the house for days on end. Sister in law is addicted to gaming etc and basically happy to stay in.
• Sister-in-law doesn't brush her teeth as "niece doesn't like it ", what 4 year old likes having their teeth brushed...
• Niece is only dressed on nursery days, ( where she does seem to dress her appropriately), she stays in her PJs for days on end otherwise. Whenever I visit on a non nursery day , niece is in her pyjamas, even at 2/3pm. Sister-in-law says what's the point in dressing niece if they are not going out.
• Sister in law is very overweight, basically live off take aways each night, ( only healthy meal she gets is the dinner 2 x a week at nursery).
• The flat is filthy. Five cats in a two bed flat , stinks of cat urine whenever I go round, litter trays always overflowing. Extremely cluttered and no space for niece to play.
• Sister-in-law smokes weed daily, ( she says only when niece is in bed ), but the whole flat stinks of it.

I know the simple answer is to report to soical, but I'm worried they won't do anything and it will just end up withe and my parents being cut off
Does this cross the line to reportable neglect?

Why should the OP do any of this for her? Shes a grown adult who decided to have a child. She needs to start taking care & some pride in her child & home and not let her live in squalor. Its called accountability.

I didn't say op should help her. I mentioned early help. As is early help from professionals they work alongside social services. I meant that early help could give support

Op can you report on the basis your worried she’s not attending nursery not compulsory but the reason she’s not attending is her mum can’t be arsed getting her ready and it’s much easier to sit her in front of the tablet. This poor kid needs intervention asap your brother is a twat and I would say to his current girlfriend don’t get pregnant by this loser he already has 2 kids he doesn’t give a shit about he’s not meant to be a dad he’s a selfish twat that one’s for free before he ruins your life. The development of child is going to be really bad and if she’s not getting fed properly she won’t be getting her nutrients also if mum stops you seeing her surely this better than mum ruining dc life she can’t function on weed every day I hate parents who smoke weed and think they can function your niece deserves more than what she’s getting also if her mum loves her enough she might get her act together to be a proper mum. Her age is irrelevant now she’s given birth she needs to step up and you and your parents need to as well yes it will hurt if you can’t see her but are you ok ignoring the mess she lives in.

The mother needs support??? She's a druggie! It's the kid that needs protecting urgently.

At 21????? 🙄

Sounds neglectful, poor child and poor cats stuck in there. Wonder how much stimulation that child is getting when she has parents who put their own needs first. You could discuss with your local safeguarding team.

I don’t think it’s the fact that child is wearing pyjamas,it’s that they are wearing them from bed throughout the day and probably to bed again that night.No boundaries or structure to the day,just existing with the stench of weed and animal excrement as the norm 🤮

All opinions are helpful in some way, even if it’s to another reader. Just because you don’t agree doesnt mean you can tell me to stop.

No assumption. Just my opinion like you gave your’s. It’s the internet, it’s a forum and that’s what this spa e is for. OP can ignore. Perhaps it helps another reader. Who knows .

Agree worrying/neglect and report.

😲 not cool. This situation requires intervention. No question.

Yes, you need to report this. With every new bullet point my heart sank further. The drug taking and the unhygienic conditions can’t be ignored. The mother needs help but yes, it’s neglect.

What an awful situation for your young niece. I would report but Social Services as so stretched not sure what they will do. Your niece won’t know any different but so sad to think she is indoors so long with her mum, who will probably be gaming and maybe ignoring her.

I wonder if she is actually allowed to have pets in the flat? The weed situation is grim. Your poor niece having to inhale that day in , day out. The mother needs a firm speaking to so reporting might give her the kick she needs. Does the child spend every day on her tablet? That's not good. I also disagree with those saying it's fine for her to be stuck in the house 5 days + per week. It's really not, an hour per day in the fresh air should be the bare minimum required. What a lazy mother. That poor child. Could you start taking her to the park on a Saturday for example?

That poor child. Its interesting posters are saying you and your parents should step up but no one suggests the actual father should. If this was my family my parents would absolutely take my brother to task and I would do the same if my son ever acted this shamefully. Of course I would try to help too but it’s wrong society and families just accept men sidestepping their responsibilities.
Maybe the mother has mental health issues or maybe she is just selfish, lazy and neglectful. It would be interesting to know where her own parents feature in this. I agree families should help out wherever they can before deferring to social services.

Exactly. If this were my son I would be livid.

REPORT. You'll be failing that poor child if you don't. Give her the chance of a decent life.

But firehorse he would need to want to look after the child. Would you trust that he could take proper care of her if he doesn't want to see her? It's too much of a risk. The op actually has an interest in the little girl and cares and so posters are suggesting that maybe she can help the mum out.

And we also have lazy parents who have no sense of responsibility and prefer gaming and takeaways to attending to their childrens’ needs, and only on MN have l ever seen it being explained away like this. I’ve been a disability support worker for over twenty years and IME what OP describes is not typical of spectrum behaviour and it’s very unfair to those on the spectrum to attribute it to neurodiversity.

This. I’m astounded by the number of posters suggesting that OP and her family step in in any capacity at all. There is clearly a substantial problem here which demands professional input. What’s happening is beyond the ability of family to deal with beyond a temporary fix which would do more harm than good.

The mum needs more support than family can give and social services will work with her and refer to other support agencies to get to the bottom of the problem and provide the help they need. This is not about ‘ratting out’ or punishing her SiL, it’s about protecting that little girl.

What you don’t see are the undiagnosed children of undiagnosed people with severe ADHD. 20 years ago the diagnosis didn’t exist. 20 years later we have the children who saw their parents unhealthy coping mechanisms. This means the dysfunction, the characteristics and symptoms are hardened with every generation through a combination of 2 things:
nature (the hereditary aspect of ADHD, the brain wiring), and
nurture (the learned behaviours and trauma bonds: what they see, what they learn, what they copy, what they use to cope)

You clearly know something about spectrum conditions but you can’t possibly diagnose without clinical investigation, and definitely not without ever having met the person. So your post was one big assumption. There are many factors to be considered before considering ADHD as an explanation and all you’ve done here is perpetuate the labelling of anything and everything as ADHD, which diminishes the experience and acceptance of those who genuinely have the condition.

And what we also have is ADHD being applied as a label to explain simple bad behaviour to the kind of situation OP describes here, and everything in between. It doesn’t mean OP’s SiL has it, or that it’s typically responsible for this type of behaviour. There are many underlying problems to consider as contributing factors before jumping to neurodiversity.

I don't know I still think even if she does have ADHD or depression how can you let your house constantly stink of cat piss. I do struggle with my mental health but even if my place is messy I always always make sure the litter trays aren't stinking of cat pee as I couldn't live with the smell and I don't know how anyone could (apart from being conscious I don't want my cats to have to have a horrible dirty tray as that's just neglect)

It does nothing of the sort. I am a person on a forum giving my opinion. Get off your high horse.

what I am trying to do is show that what appears to be laziness on the surface can actually be something much more complex underneath.

perhaps it is laziness but I am just giving my view in case it helps to see from another angle what it MIGHT BE.

if the girl has had a really poor example set by her parents then she will know no different.

if her executive functioning issues are VERY SEVERE she will not have that part of the brain that recognises remedial action fire up. So she won’t be able to help herself.

more and more science is realising that ADHD is a dysfunction of executive functioning. I really recommend that you listen to some podcasts by Dr Barkley. The NHS is always far far behind on updating their thinking and literature, primarily because they need to be sure the info is solid but also because government-run entities are just slow.

people must keep their minds open to many possibilities, not just labelling the mum as lazy, otherwise we are failing the mum and the child. If we can help both of them then the ideal outcome is that their lives improve together.