My parents are sleeping in chairs in the living room

[Pigeonangel]

And I don't know what I'm supposed to do.

I live very close and visit often. Always have done, am happy to. They're good company and have been fantastic parents and grandparents. When DH was terminally ill, and subsequently died, I honestly don't know how I'd have got through it without them.

That was only 5 years ago, they were there constantly for all of us, helping with house and car repairs, running errands etc. Until they hit 80 they were amazing sprightly older people who could do anything - furious at the suggestion they might be "vulnerable" during lockdown 🤣

How things change. In a matter of months they've both had health issues that mean their mobility is badly affected. Until recently it always seemed to be worse for one at a time and they're a great team so got by supporting each other, without asking or wanting much from me.

Now Mum can shuffle a bit with a frame and Dad is unable to walk at all. Last night they both slept in chairs downstairs. Mum suffles about to get food, do some cleaning and bring him a bed bottle etc. She managed to do a roast dinner for them both at the weekend, although I can't believe for a minute that would have been safe.

Mentally they are both totally with it, the house is perfectly livable (ie not dirty, if not practical), they seem OK from a personal hygiene pov, and are insisting they don't need anything from me or social services, they slept well last night and can manage.

Am I supposed to just leave it at that? I'm feeling very overwhelmed. It's just me with DH gone, my DC live away and DSis is also several 100 miles away but has lots of opinions on how Mum and Dad should behave.

I don't know what to do.

I don’t begrudge anyone having one I wouldn’t have one nor did my mother

Do you think that paramedics can force anyone to be taken to A&E?
No one can be taken to A&E if they refuse to go.

I'd love to know what 'job' you do in A&E because your assertions are not how it works.

You are being rather ignorant here.

A LPA gives the family control over treatment for example at the end of life, to follow your wishes. They are appointed to act in your best interests.

In terms of a financial POA they are able to manage accounts on your behalf when you maybe can't.

You perhaps have no understanding of what a POA is for.

I would have a sensible conversation with your parents about the suggestion of a OT and moving the bedrooms.

But, if they won’t listen, you can’t do much. Let them know if they change their mind, you’ll happily help. You can’t make people change so don’t stress yourself about it.

Your posts come over as if you have no meaningful, close relationship with them, despite being on hand for care.

Are you a family who never talks about important issues?

I don't want to be harsh but you've never answered so many questions here about your parents' illnesses and their prognoses.

That's your choice of course, but I wonder what you're hoping to get out of your thread when you won't really engage and add detail?

Is this how you and your family behave? Skirting around issues and not being frank ?

My parents set up POA in their early 70s.

I've done mine younger than that.
Our children are witnesses.

It's important to broach these issues to make it easier in the future.

I don't understand why you can't open up this conversation with each other.

You can’t accept that someone has a different opinion to you. Don’t you see that as a problem? You seem to have an overwhelming need to be correct even down to calling me ignorant. It’s a choice you made yours. I made mine.

My parents had a bungalow but in her last few years my mum could only sleep comfortably in a chair in the lounge. We purchased an electrically operated bed and reclining armchair to try and improve her comfort but neither were used beyond a few nights as she insisted the ordinary armchair was most comfortable. Nothing more we could do.
You can only do what they allow you to do. Try and get any grab rails, walking aides and kitchen aides sorted to help them stay safe but beyond that you can't impose your standards on them, especially as they have full mental capacity.
If you don't have power of attorney now might be the time to raise with them incase things deteriorate.

But it's because your posts appear to show that you aren't aware of the benefits of a POA.

Having used them with parents and PILs and set up my own, I'm perhaps more aware of the use.

Get them to give permission for their GP to speak to you. It sounds as though they need a lot of support.

If they won’t give permission for you to talk to their GP you can still request a telephone call with them or send an email listing your concerns. The GP cannot discuss it with you but will note the issues and may instigate a check up or even alert social
services.

I guess if they have mental capacity and say it’s fine, then it’s their choice. I think you can buy kettles etc which are safer to use and just hinge to pour rather than need lifting. It might be a case of problem solving specific tasks (like making roast dinner) to help them continue independently, if they insist they are ok. But it sounds stressful. Alll you can do is offer….

You can’t give it up can you? Some people have different opinions to me. Say that 10 times while looking in the mirror

OP asked a question what she’s supposed to do. If she wanted to do nothing and just get moral support she could have said so straight away

Based on your responses OP you just want a pat on the back and validation that nothing can be done so you can just sit back and let it play it the way it will play out.

Sadly, as our parents age our roles reverse. If you are concerned for their welfare, you (or someone) will need to step up and take action. They may mean upsetting them. However, listen to their wishes, explain what you feel they need and find a compromise between what they think they want/need and what you know they need.

Change is difficult for the elderly. Support them with it, help them adjust. More often than not, they will be grateful and thank you once they’ve adjusted to the changes.

I am having to adjust my life/work here in the UK and help my parents in their mid 80’s cope with changes to how they live - in Australia. It’s hard for them, it’s hard for me. It’s the way it is sadly as our parents age.

They live in a house with bedrooms upstairs, I live on the other side of the world.
You may just have to deal with them being pi$$ed with you during the transition.

You’re quite right, people can’t be forced to go to A&E, but they can be persuaded by paramedics when they are at risk, and if they can’t be persuaded, paramedics can escalate the situation by assessing capacity. And lack of insight into risk of harm to selves can indicate lack of capacity.
in A&E, my job is working with older people and frail patients. I absolutely know what I am talking about, and if someone is unable to transfer, and this is new for them, then this is exactly the right pathway, and I would recommend this everytime for the safety of patients and family members.

It's not that 'I can't give up'.
It's standard advice from numerous reliable and sensible sources that all adults should a) make a Will and , as they age, b) have POA.

And several other posters have advised you likewise.
You don't need to be rude. I could suggest you look in the mirror and say 'It's very unwise of me not to create a POA'.

If you have understood , in detail, all the disadvantages of not having a POA (and how it may make life very hard for you and your family) and the difficulties that may arise without one, that's your choice.

It' s very hard though to understand any argument against having one, speaking from the experience of when they were used.

Sorry that to hear of you and your parents’ predicament. It’s hard that matters have come to head so quickly - possibly quicker that they can cope with.

It’s hard as our parents age and our relationship and responsibilities change, and in the latter’s case gently swap over.

Many of us have had to have ‘the conversation’ about our parents continuing to drive.

There are parallels between my parents and yours.
We, mainly me and my brother, talked and suggested. I made myself unpopular suggesting that living in a village with no shop, doctor or busses would be difficult once they couldn’t drive.

Not driving came suddenly. My Dad in a hospital bed downstairs and my Mum on a camp bed in the next room. We children all lived 50-100 miles away.

They were stubborn, mentally fine, physically lacking.

My Dad was told he was terminally ill - he wasn’t but was ill and weak.

So we sowed the idea of them moving out of their house and to another just a minutes walk from my brother - nearby to where they’d lived 35 years ago. Shops, doctors, busses, help all on hand.

They saw the light and we moved them. The persuasion took some time but they took it to be their decision.

Stair lift fitted, hospital bed upstairs, decent bed for my mum. It worked. After my Dad died we left the stair lift in - she wasn’t getting any younger and her balance wasn’t 100%. Using it became second nature.

After a few years, falls and dementia becoming more obvious we moved her bedroom downstairs. Carers in. There was a downstairs bathroom and carers took up upstairs for showers.

Now in care but our work kept her upright and at home for several years.

I think talking is your answer, you won’t change minds in one chat. It’s a case of sowing seeds. Gently putting the other view.

Obviously what we did, what worked with my parents might not with yours.

Councils will help with handrails etc if you aren’t handy. Charities can offer advice and stair lifts can be installed in a week from order to fitting. Reconditioned ones save quite a bit.

All the best.

When my husband’s Grans health started to fail and she couldn’t get upstairs to bed they (him and his Dad) like others have suggested turned her dining room into a bedroom.
She said she wouldn’t use it and that she was managing fine but they did it anyway and once it was all set up she actually started using it within a couple of nights, exclaiming she was only using it to stop everyone fussing and that as soon as she was stronger she would go back upstairs, she never did get back upstairs and lived only on the downstairs floor from then on.
She already had a downstairs loo, they knocked through a cupboard and put in a downstairs shower but she mostly strip washed sitting down.
They didn’t ask permission, and paid for the work themselves. She grumbled a little but I think she was probably relieved because she had several more years of coping on her own, then with carers and then passed away in her own home.
My Mum has poor health and is in her mid 70’s, my brother and I have POA set up already although we don’t use it yet, it’s mostly incase she gets hospitalised again for a significant period.
I would have no problem going in and telling her I was moving things around etc Whilst she’s not a child, she doesn’t always put her best interests first and would rather struggle, so I get bossy apparently, but it usually works 😂

@Pigeonangel I am so sorry, all of this is so awful and often there is no good solution, only a choice of the least worst. Parenting your parents is not something anyone wants to do and not everyone has to do it so it feels unfair.

I would do one thing this week which is phone their GP and explain how worried you are about them, saying what you have said in your OP. Or if it’s difficult to get through- speaking to DPs doctors was a logistical nightmare because you had to do the ringing up at 8am, tricky with a job and my own tiny life - then email or write them a letter.
If you can get professionals involved then it will no longer be your sole burden and it sounds like they desperately need social and medical intervention.

But you did ask for advice in your initial post and asked various questions in subsequent posts. Not sure why you seem annoyed at ppl trying to make helpful suggestions.

But have they been given this choice? You say they don't want to. How do you know unless you or someone has that conversation with them? When my MiL was suspected of having dementia and her GP referred her to a memory clinic, he told me in front of her that we should get POA drawn up immediately. He explained to her why. If you can't explain to your parents why it's in their best interest, then I'd do as others here have suggested, and get their GP involved. If you simply continue to wring your hands and say that they aren't initiating things and that you daren't do anything without their permission, then you and them are going find that there will come a time when decisions need to be made and might not be made by anyone who really cares about them.

As they have capacity you can’t go against their wishes, so just express concern, offer to help etc etc.
Eventually, and not being unkind but speaking from experience, the wheels will come off and they will have to accept help and/or care.
Please try and get POA if you haven’t already. I had to guilt trip my dad into activating his (was the old EPA version) because he expected me to deal with his bank etc and I had to tell him it was illegal unless the POA was active…which of course was true!
He subsequently bought a retirement flat and I honestly couldn’t have done that or supported him until the end without the POA.

@Pigeonangel Financial and Health LPA's don't need to give the Attorney(s) any immediate decision-making power over someone's affairs. Most are set up so that IF and when a person loses the capacity to make decisions regarding their finances and health, e.g. they develop dementia; they're in a coma, etc., only then can the Attorneys make decisions on their behalf. My Dad's is set up that way.

You can have multiple Attorneys too so your parents could be each other's Attorney, plus you and/or your sister. Or someone else if they prefer.

It's not difficult to set up and you don't need to use a solicitor. You can download the forms, complete the paperwork with them, and send it in to be registered. They can also change it if they wish.

What I'd say to them is that given that they've been struggling with some health issues, which have come on quickly, now's the time to ensure that the people they want to make any future decisions are legally able to do it. They don't want strangers (such as Social Services) deciding what's going to happen, do they?

Make, register or end a lasting power of attorney: Overview - GOV.UK

I think the most important thing for them is being in charge of themselves.
So practically, you could mention making the dining room a bedroom, hiring paid staff for this and that but as a choice for them.
Leave it with them as something to think about down the line, if they choose (or something major changes.)
And noseybones that doesn't live near enough to help you with decisions, can get back in her box.
This is the approach I took with my mum and she was so pleased to be left in the driver's seat