Sad mum in restaurant

[Conniebygaslight]

Currently on holiday and was in a restaurant this evening. There was a family at the next table. The mum arrived before everyone else, then the dad with 2 early teen girls. The mum just looked so sad throughout. Didn’t engage with the dad at all, looked like completely avoiding him and off with her own thoughts almost lost and very small. One of her DD’s said something to her and she just sadly shrugged. I thought that if he left the table I would ask if she was ok but he didn’t. She didn’t look scared at all. I can’t stop thinking about her.
I know it’s none of my business but I really felt for her. Don’t know why I’m posting really, but if by any miracle she sees this, I hope she’s ok.

I don't need the possible negative outcomes of speaking to a woman in the presence of her abuser explained to me, thank you. They are entirely obvious.
What neither of you has explained to me is how speaking to a woman when her (possible) abuser is not there would be risking her safety. You have told me that it may cause her embarrassment and I understand that. However that possibility is not compelling enough to convince me that we should be advocating for women to ignore other women who may need help.

But if the suspected abuser wasn't present, why would you have concerns?

I mean, I can understand if you saw a woman crying to herself whilst sitting alone on a bench in an unpopulated area but that's quite a specific scenario.

And even approaching a woman whose partner had gone to the loo or the bar would be risky because he will be back any second and the woman will already be in a heightened state of anxiety and intervention wouldn't help. You're a stranger. Her 'normal' isn't yours. She doesn't know if you're going to approach her partner when he returns. Even if she wants to say she isn't OK, she won't because she isn't going to risk a stranger who is, by definition, an unknown factor escalating an already terrifying or risky situation for her.

She doesn't know if you're going to start shouting (if that's her normal), or taking control (if that's her normal), become aggressive (if that's her normal). And the last thing she wants is for him to see.

Because she knows what will happen if he does.

You just aren't going to see that part because that part will happen when she's at home and there are no strangers to.intervene.

Did you know a technique used by abusers involves hidden listening devices?I know it sounds like a spy film but you can pick up devices for next to nothing.

Imagine you have a word with a woman when she is alone. In these days it’s possible he is spying on her, so your actions result in a beating or worse?

Still think it’s worth it? If so then please be honest enough to admit it is nothing to do with protecting women.

And if you think it is simply 'embarrassment' then you have only demonstrated that you have no idea and really shouldn't be approaching anyone. Tbh.

And what she said ⬆️

Putting someone’s life at risk does not make you a good person

That’s the issue - people interfere and feel smug that the worst thing they may have done is embarrass the woman.

No - the worst thing is that she has the shit kicked out of her. And that partially be the fault of the person interfering.

Sounds a bit like she was throwing a sulk to me!

I hadn't even considered the listening devices! But yes, very much so!

Exactly. So would you still interfere is there is the tiniest possibility of the woman getting battered? What if he kills her (two women are killed per week)? And if she has kids?

DA survivors are telling you why this is not a good idea

Nooo, I'm not that poster - I'm in full agreement with you! 😉

Ahhh sorry 😳😳😳😳😳😳😳

Friday afternoon brain fog 🤨🤨🤨

Yes and official sources and experts in the field are saying otherwise.
From the enough is enough campaign to end VAWG "Staying silent can allow harmful behaviour to continue. Speaking up, stepping in safely or getting help early can stop someone being hurt...even a small action can make a difference"
But you carry on, thinking you know best. Calling women prepared to take the recommended action 'interfering' even ridiculously trying to suggest that it would be their fault (not the abusers) if a woman or child was killed.
Good work.

Did you bother to read my comment about abusive partners using devices to record conversations?

It’s risk assessment. You presumably are happy to risk it. I wouldn’t be

Have you bothered to read the recommendations of professional agencies working to address VAWG? Because, no offence, but I'm going to stick with those for my guidance rather than someone on MN curiously invested in telling women not to offer help to each other.

Just trying to protect women by not making things worse. You do you.

Not really doing me, is it? Its following recommendations from experts rather than my own agenda.

Look, if I saw a woman who was in immediate risk of danger with a man (partner or otherwise) who was threatening her, raising his voice towards her, actually being physical, you can be damn sure I'd do something. I'd call the police or alert security. I wouldn't wait for him to go to the toilet and discreetly ask if she is OK. So that's not the scenario being discussed.

I quite often observe situations I'm not sure about and hang around a bit to keep an eye on it and make an assessment - like older men taking an interest in a much younger woman at the pub or a man who has approached a woman at a cashpoint or just a man 'loitering' around women and looking suspicious. I've offered company and support.

I've checked on women in toilets who've just got away from the bloke who is well known for targeting young women in the pub to check she's OK.

If I had a friend I was concerned about I would (and have), when we were alone, check in on her. Because she knows me and knows she can trust me.

My partner and I invited a woman to come and sit with us on a night out. She was alone watching her partner's band play and she was being circled by predators. We didn't even talk beyond introductions amd polite small talk but at least she wasn't sitting on her own.

I let those women know. Because their risk is neither increased or decreased by that. And sometimes those men are deterred by the visibility.

And I've had people do the same for me.

But being concerned about an actual couple who are complete strangers to me just because she is looking a bit sad or worried is very different. That woman has to go home with that partner. Her life is tied up with his. Their might be children. She might not have access to money. She is not gong to leave because a stranger asked if she was OK.

The man who accompanied me of at the station when I was harassed on the train? Very much welcomed that!

No one is saying never step in under any circumstances just that believing it I'd always the right thing to do and that the potential benefits always outweigh the risks, isn't accurate.