Shall I just go to the restaurant my DH booked or say something?

[reversegear]

For context we are in marriage counseling mostly for him being passive and leaving me to carry the load and me being the leader and stepping in, plus lots of other issues, but the lady said he needed to stop asking me what I want and be more decisive, she was also eluding to saying “I’ve looked at these three places, which would you prefer” she’s meaning real deep effort and thought.

Anyhow we have the meeting on Thursday and on Friday he’s like right we are out on Saturday night. Ok great that’s a start but when I said am I allowed to ask where, he gave me the name of the place we always go to and have been say 6-7 times, it’s lovely expensive restaurant but it’s the very easy simple go-to option and there isn’t much on the menu I fancy as they change it.

I feel really deflated, and a bit angry that’s he’s kind of just gone for something quick and easy, he’s not even sat down and looked at a new place.

i know this is part of the process, but everything in me wants to say something, and look at alternatives or just say don’t bother.

Or do you think I have to carry this and go along and the focus ny feeling with the marriage counselor?

For context he’s never booked anything.

You’re in counselling so it’s got to be baby steps before moving onto the difficult stuff. Go with this and let him take the lead. He can choose the wine, decide on things he would normally dither on etc. That’s what you want isn’t it? Later down the line, you can move on to new restaurants.

The issue between you seems to be communication.
He's taken the lead.made a decision and booked it.(which seems to be what you said you wanted)
Then you are disgruntled because hes not clairvoyant or a mind reader.
Talk to to each other.

I've been married for 40 years and just this minute realised my husband has never booked, or chosen anything. Not a restaurant, holiday or night out. Nothing. We are both pretty laid back but I'm more of a planner. I don't mind, I'm happy with him. He's hardworking, funny, kind and generous. I'm just stunned that I have never realised how much he just goes with the flow. Anyway, it's not about me OP - it's about you. I think you're done with this relationship and I don't know why you're even bothering to go out for a meal with him. He's done what was asked of him and you are not happy. Not saying you are wrong for feeling you want out but I think you should just let him know it's over and you can both move on.

I can empathise with you. Hopefully this meal is the start of him stepping up for you. It's hard being the organiser or the person that has to over see everything especially when your responsibilities keep piling up.

May this meal be the start of you feeling loved, appreciated and cared for by your husband.

Well, I guess we all know now why he lets you take the lead. Because the only decisions he's allowed to make are the ones you approve of.

He dialled it in, bare minimum effort. He isn't even making the effort to stay married.

The counsellor suggested a clear framework to help him show they had put some thought into it - here are three places, which one do you fancy. Would have taken 5 mins tops.

He is lazy, selfish and doesn't deserve you. 💐

Does it matter that much? Is it the only time you’re going to be able to eat out this year?

I stopped and smiled at ‘she’s meaning real deep effort and thought.’ because you have decided that’s what she means/ should mean. In life some of us are indecisive and also don’t love that the wrong choice can land us into an argument/ hot water. Saying that you sound exhausted and angry and fed up so I get it. But there’s hills to die on, the question is whether you have the capacity it give him leeway anymore and if you don’t then counselling won’t help any of you (just imo)

If you keep being critical when he tries to take the initiative he will soon go back to checking everything out with you or leaving you to do everything.

Probably the reason your partner never organised anything is because you always take over - so he's learnt to not bother.

He's done exactly what you've asked - but it's not good enough for you.

Haha brilliant!

It’s possible that he’s gone for the safe option thinking that it was the “right answer” You’ve had both bad and good experiences there and he may only remember the good. There’s a fine line being chilled out and doormat and he may have gone with the restaurant that he thinks you like.

You don’t love your h so you’ve naturally assumed the worst and that it’s laziness. While it’s possible that this is the case, you are trying to get someone who hasn’t organised anything for years to organise something so your expectations are too high. We only learn about the extra stuff like what time is best through experience and he’s literally never thought about it and will only learn through mistakes. For example if he’s booked 6:30 when he’s not usually hungry until 8, he will only learn to
book 8 next time because he won’t be in the mood to eat. I understand that having a grown child who needs to be taught this stuff is a total turnoff but he’s literally had other people do this shit all his life so he can drift along.

A loving husband might make assumptions about the other restaurant that you’ve not thought of. For example he might remember that you’re not a big fan of rice so discounted the new Turkish place.

Is it possible that you set him up with tests that he can’t pass? I understand it’s totally annoying to have to walk him through this but if you’d mentioned “anywhere but usual place”, he might have found a new gem.

I mentioned earlier that there is a fine line between chilled out and doormat. How is his self esteem? I can be very indecisive about little decisions (but am a single parent so need to make a choice in a timely manner) Or do you think he’s just lazy and doesn’t care about stuff like eating out and going on holiday?

You aren’t unreasonable to be turned off by this man child btw. It would give me perpetual ick.

It's just incredible how little women expect of male partners! Baby steps; it's his first time, be gentle; consider how you created this dynamic by being competent.

It's a credit to @reversegear's good will and compassion that her OP is most easily understood as "Poor DH has this problem and perhaps I'm being too negative about his effort." She wrote it, they are her words. My first thoughts, too, were along the "baby steps" line. Be kind.

This is an adult man. He works, he gets himself there and back every day, he performs competently at work. He has friends. He meets them socially.

By outside appearance he's a normal, independently functional adult. Then, at home, he's an abnormally passive, incompetent baby. So haplessly helpless that booking a familiar restaurant's a breakthrough! Fucking hell.

Is it possible that a functioning grown-up could be so entirely passive and helpless that he's unable to insure his home, book a holiday, decide what to eat? I'm going for no; it isn't.

.. He might be staggeringly lazy - but only at home; he's managed to keep his job and friends.
.. He might be browbeaten by a controlling wife - but they would have argued about decisions before settling into this dynamic.
.. He might simply not care about her or their life together, have never really been bothered.
.. Or he might be playing a power game.

All I can say, OP, is I admire your commitment and your constructive attitude - wish you luck! Have a nice evening.

@reversegear I completely understand where you are coming from. My husband of 33 years is so laid back, he's almost horizontal, and it can be very irritating at times, as I too, do all the researching, thinking and organising/booking things. But hey! I know I irritate him too sometimes for different reasons.

Marriages do need to be worked on and a degree of compromise in some areas needs to be reached to keep both people in a relationship happy.

I'm thinking that perhaps you are more disappointed that he didn't pick up on the therapists advice to look at 3 options and THEN offer the choice of which one you preferred? I think that is something to raise at the next session, rather than complaining that you didn't like his choice at all? That would have been one Compromise solution that could have benefitted you both?

I've stayed with my husband all these years, because he has lots of good qualities and of course your DH may not. But one other thing I will say is that the plus side of my DH being so laid back is that I nearly always get what I want to do. I always give him options/ ask for his preferences etc before I/we reach a decision, but because he really doesn't mind 99 times out of a hundred, I get to pick which option I prefer.

I would stick with counselling for a bit and see how it goes. If you like being in control (and that's ok, lots of people of both sexes do), then a laid back type of person, would almost certainly be the best type of partner for you. It is for me, although I was in my 40's when I realised. I was married twice before I met my current DH and as I say, we've been married more than 30 years.

I’ve read your posts and what I wonder is how your expectation is being communicated.

You say you want him to take the initiative. And he’s done that, with a reliable and safe option. Ok, he’s not taken a risk, but, crucially, he’s done the thing to supposedly address what he’s been told is an issue for you.

So when you say you want him to take the initiative and book somewhere I have a feeling you actually mean:

think about your likes and dislikes
remember all previous restaurant experiences and what you said about them
know what you value
research places based on the above
think about which ones will please you
and then book it

That’s perhaps what you do. And if that is what you want him to do then you need to say so. Because whatever else he is, he’s not a mind-reader.

Alternatively you’re looking for him to fail according to your unspoken standards so you can justify it to yourself when you leave - you don’t need a reason and you don’t need justification. If it’s done for you then no amount of restaurant bookings will make you feel seen an understood and appreciated.

@Snorlaxoi agree with this and there is a real mix of not caring and being lazy and taking me for granted. He loves holidays and eating out, enjoys them, just not the arranging part of it, in retirement he keeps talking about all the travels we are doing and my brain straight aways gets tired just thinking about it all.

One big problem when a relationship is in trouble is that either partner finds themselves putting a negative twist on actions that are intended to be positive. I think this is what is happening here.

This guy has made the required effort but the negative halo effect causes his wife to find something wrong with it.

You say you have been 6-7 times and it's a lovely restaurant, he probably thinks you really like the place so of course he would go for the safe option. If he took you somewhere totally new and it was awful you would be unhappy with that so I would say of course he will go for the safe option, doesn't make it a thoughtless one.

It sounds like you have already checked out of the relationship and almost want him to fail.

I suspect that your DH feels he can never do anything that lives up to your exacting standards so just doesn't bother anymore. Why would he, when he knows he'll just get criticised again? I'm married to someone a bit like you, and I've also checked out of certain things. It's exhausting living with someone so hypercritical as you feel like you're constantly walking on eggshells.

Regarding the restaurant, I would do what he has - go for the 'safest' option. So say thankyou and do your best to enjoy it.

Then give him some space and let him get it wrong initially. He may well surprise you.

The poor guy can't win can he.

Have you fallen into these roles because you are naturally the leader in this sort of thing? I do all the booking of things like restaurants and holidays. I used to sometimes be frustrated about it but then I realised that actually I prefer to be in control of this sort of thing. It works better if it's me doing it because subconsciously I always have an idea in my mind of what I want. This issue alone seems unreasonable to end a relationship over. It sounds as if you are overthe relationship in general but have just latched onto one specific thing as the cause.

If you can't see that in this specific example you come across as unreasonable it could be because you are so clouded in negativity about the relationship which suggests not much can be done to save it.

So do the therapist tell him to take control and book somewhere or give you a choice of 3, it’s unclear?!

and there isn’t much on the menu I fancy as they change it.

I'm confused by this @reversegear . How do you know there isn't much you like if you don't know what is on the menu?

Do you have very specific dietary requirements or are you just fussy?

I sense that you'd like to be single.

As a single you will have to organise all your own insurance etc. Nothing much will change at all.

Try to learn something positive from the counselling.
Try to genuinely like the company of your spouse and try to see that allocating some things to his care and responsibility might be beneficial. Choose wisely together which tasks suit each of you.

Chill out more - notice the funny and special things about your DH. Identify what he does well and encourage him.

I'm not surprised - probably fed up with being told he's wrong! You need to play your part in this process - so don't complain, don't moan just go and enjoy it.