Shall I just go to the restaurant my DH booked or say something?

[reversegear]

For context we are in marriage counseling mostly for him being passive and leaving me to carry the load and me being the leader and stepping in, plus lots of other issues, but the lady said he needed to stop asking me what I want and be more decisive, she was also eluding to saying “I’ve looked at these three places, which would you prefer” she’s meaning real deep effort and thought.

Anyhow we have the meeting on Thursday and on Friday he’s like right we are out on Saturday night. Ok great that’s a start but when I said am I allowed to ask where, he gave me the name of the place we always go to and have been say 6-7 times, it’s lovely expensive restaurant but it’s the very easy simple go-to option and there isn’t much on the menu I fancy as they change it.

I feel really deflated, and a bit angry that’s he’s kind of just gone for something quick and easy, he’s not even sat down and looked at a new place.

i know this is part of the process, but everything in me wants to say something, and look at alternatives or just say don’t bother.

Or do you think I have to carry this and go along and the focus ny feeling with the marriage counselor?

For context he’s never booked anything.

Just go. Poor guy

If you want him to make more decisions you have to accept his choices. If you tell him he’s wrong he will stop doing it (which is probably why he never does it in the first place)

Well at least we've got to the bottom of why he's passive and leaves everything to you. Nothings he does is good enough!

Either you want him to take control or you don’t. If you want him to start booking things off his own bat without your guidance, you need to accept that sometimes they won’t be exactly the same choices you’d have made. That’s literally what relinquishing control/responsibility means.

To be honest, I suspect you’d have been unhappy with whatever place he chose. It’s sounds like you’re going through counselling purely because you don’t want to be accused of not making an effort, and not because you have any real wish to save a marriage. You don’t like him.

It has achieved the OP realising that even when her partner picks somewhere that they have gone to several times over the years and had nice meals in beautiful surroundings her first instinct is to criticise. That could be valuable information to help improve their relationship if the OP can change that dynamic.

Poor ickle man.

I can only assume that the posters calling you abusive have no idea of what it’s like to live with someone who weaponises incompetence. There isn’t a choice when you are in a shared life and one partner just can’t be bothered. There is no option to check out in return and let him learn the consequences of not doing things, because if you check out then the children don’t get fed, the cars aren’t MOT’d, the laundry isn’t done, the holiday that you discussed is never booked, the bills aren’t paid. It costs you money - often lots of money. It causes massive stress.

It sounds like what you’re feeling is a natural response to your husband doing too little too late. It’s very hard to rebuild from a place where you look at how your partner is acting and realise that you are no longer in love with them, but if you’re serious about wanting to work things out then trying to reframe this as a big step for him rather than a relatively low effort decision is the right thing to do.

I’m sorry you’re going through this and I wish you the very best of luck - either way it ends, you’re doing the right thing by working through it.

I think you should smile, go to the place he's booked and show him appreciation. Then in a fun way, suggest you've really enjoyed it and how about he surprises you with a 'new' restaurant next month. If you're picky, tell him a cuisine, Italian or whatever, so he can't go wrong.

Unless you've given up on the marriage, in which case tell him he should change the booking, which could be very deflating to him.

I completely get how you feel OP. I was in a similar situation in a previous relationship, he would never plan or even suggest anything. At one point I told him I really wanted him to choose a restaurant for our anniversary. He revealed on the day his "choice" was the same place we had gone to for last anniversary. A big difference in my case was that we both hadn't really liked the restaurant!

Everyone is saying he is trying but the thing is, he isn't. He didn't spend time on it at all. When I and I assume OP plan a night out, we think of what the partner likes, look up what's new in the city, spend time looking at restaurant menus and reading reviews, checking the parking. OK it's not going down a mine but it does take time and effort. He didn't do any if that, he just thought "OK Sergio's exists, I'll book it".

Not sure if I'm missing something but I thought it was lovely that he initiated going out Saturday night with you. Maybe it is the "easy" option but does he look at it as perhaps yours and his place to go to. If you're not keen, I would just be upfront "I'd love to go out, can we try somewhere new please?". He doesn't know unless you also communicate what you would like.

Hi OP,
You have said that you are burnt out/overwhelmed with life. As well as your relationship difficulties it sounds like you have work, kids, elderly parents.

My husband would be fairly passive about where we go as he puts other people before himself so he's happy just to go where suits me/the kids/the relatives we're meeting.

I also do the reminding about MOT booking - I keep budgeting software and it flags up on there but my husband actually books it (after a few reminders) and takes them to the garage. Our bills/ insurances renew on direct debits. I remind him about birthday cards for his relatives (repeatedly) and buy some of the cards etc which I know some mumsnetters get irate about. I do all the deep cleaning - I could count on one hand the amount of times he has cleaned the bathroom over the years.

However....
His strengths (as affects me) are that he'll spend all day running the kids around and keeping our (special needs) son busy. He'll do this even if I'm not busy if I choose to chill over going with them.

My husband cooks more than I do including often on days when he's been at work all day and I'm off. He clears up the kitchen/dishwasher on most nights.

He'll get through loads of washing - although I don't like him to wash my tops or anything nice as I say he crams it all in and it ends up looking like a jumble sale!

My husband would do anything to help me if I need him e.g. if my car broke down his first instinct would be to come over and give me his car while he waits for the breakdown service rather than me.

What I am trying to say is that you don't need to share all the roles but you do need to share the overall load. If you are good at organising bills and planning activities and your husband is happy to go with the flow then I don't think there is anything wrong with that - but he needs to free up your time and energy to do that role.

Could he do more running around of the kids? More cooking? More cleaning? Does he do the traditionally "blue jobs"? The bins, the car washing, cutting the grass?

What do you do for your elderly parents? If you are visiting them each day/each week or whatever could he take over some of those visits for you?

I'm just trying to establish what he does do or could do to help you and lighten your load while both acknowledging your strengths and weaknesses.

So you are expecting him to choose perfectly the first time taking the lead, and you sound pretty unforgiving if he gets it wrong.

Can you see why it’s been emotionally safer for him not to bother if he knows he can’t meet you exacting standards?

You are full of resentment that he doesn’t try to please you, but when he tries to please you it’s not good enough because you are full of resentment. Catch 22.

If it’s going to work, you need to let go of resentment and wipe the slate clean and be encouraging towards your partner for showing any behaviour you want to encourage (even if he doesn’t choose perfectly).

Here’s the thing, maybe he has been a selfish pr*ck and perhaps you are within your rights to be angry and leave. So do that. However, if you want to stay in the relationship, you really need to ‘let go’ of that need to be right or win. He won’t be able to make up for his previous failings and it won’t be any sort of relationship if you are subconsciously thinking he deserves correction or punishment.

Give yourself and your partner a break. Focus on reasons for it to work not reasons to break up. Hope it works out for you it that’s what you want.

You've said a lot that he's doing the bare minimum.
But it's all relative, and this could be quite a big step for him.

You perceive it as minimal, which is quite dismissive.

I know it's not a good analogy, but it's like saying an alcoholic is doing the bare minimum by celebrating a day without alcohol.

Then that's you deciding to delegate the decision, and presumably be happy with the outcome. Which is not what happened here. The counsellor seems to have mistaken OP's DH not participating in decision-making for not telling OP what to do.

Was the date tonight? How did it go?

You're getting a lot of criticism OP but I'm guessing people haven't been in this type of relationship. I really empathise because I'm in the same boat. This is probably not the first time you've asked for change and he's puffed out his chest proudly and expected all the roses for doing the bare minimum. And it's exhausting. I've been there so many times where you have to be so appreciative for them doing 10% of what you would have done for them.

But, as you're both committing to trying and having one last chance I would say there's two ways of looking at it:

If you've never mentioned it was getting samey or the new menu wasn't as good anymore, then honestly, he probably doesn't realise it's an issue and genuinely thought 'she loves this place' so let it slide.

If he does know, then I would say you really appreciate him booking and taking the initiative and you're really looking forward to spending time together but really it could have been a take out and your favourite wine or a picnic in the garden as long as he'd put some thought into it. Just remind him that it's not the 'doing' - you just want to be thought of and to see some effort.

I disagree with everyone just saying accept it because the whole point of counselling is to air things so you can work on them so letting him know that what you need is more thoughtfulness is not a bad thing. But maybe it's something you could save for your next session and enjoy the night out?

The way you’re posting about him now sounds quite critical, and he’s done what seems like a nice thing by booking a restaurant he knows you like. I do understand the frustration of you having to book and take care of everything whilst he does nothing. However, I think he has done a nice thing here.

It might also be worth thinking about his positive qualities and what else he brings to the relationship. This might be covered later in counselling, but it’s still worth thinking about. It might also be helpful to get separate counselling for yourself if you can afford it.

@KilkennyCats good point. OP booked this restaurant SIX times previously, so unimaginative and too easy.

I feel bad for you OP. Passive people are hard work and you have a process ahead of you but you need to accept the efforts he makes as a starting point. It doesn't matter who started this dynamic, no point in laying blame. if things are going to work he has to massively change his behaviour and that will be a difficult slow process. It will also mean big compromises from you, going on holidays you don't really like, choosing movies you don't like, eating in places you wouldn't choose, day trips that you have no interest in. There are down sizes to an assertive partner too.

6 times previously... over a 10+ year timeframe so it's not like they are 'regulars' I would think, but at least he thought "I know she definitely likes this expensive place"

If you are super checked out then it doesn't matter what he does it will always be wrong. You can't stand him and you want out. Just own that I think and give up on the pretence of date nights etc.

I’d advise that you go, say nothing negative, and pretend you’re excited about it. At the early stages in the marriage counselling, it’s always a case of ‘fake it till you make it’ as the old habits will keep trying to push to the surface. If you try to say anything you’re taking on the mental load of this task all over again and that’s what you’re trying to avoid. You both need to wean yourself off that dynamic and it will mean getting outside your comfort zone.

Think of this booking like the first pancake; his choice may not be perfect but at least it’s a start! Just relax, sit back and pretend you’re on a first date - it can be relaxing being the passenger and not the driver sometimes.

At the end of the meal you can say something like: “this has been so much fun! Can’t wait to see where you’re going to choose next time!”.

You’ve nothing to lose by keeping schtum and giving him a chance to step up. If, in 6 months time, he’s still pretty hopeless and passive, at least you’ll have given it your best shot - and we both know that you’d be 100% fine on your own (after all, you’ve essentially been on your own emotionally and mentally for some time). But this is an opportunity to see if he can become a better partner.

It sounds like there is a lot of history and frustration behind all this, but if you are considering staying with him, and genuinely want him to change his behaviour to initiate and take charge more, it's really best to try and embrace and support his efforts in the right direction. I don't want to compare your husband to an animal, but in training an animal, you don't expect them to get it 100% right the first time, and you reward them as they try and get closer to what you want. Same with kids. Same with all of us really. If we put ourselves out there to do something new for our partner we're much more likely to try again if we don't get shot down and made to feel it was a failure. This doesn't mean you have to say it was perfect if it's not, but you can appreciate the effort. Hard to do if the two of you are in a bad place, but worthwhile if you want to feel you've tried before walking away.

ETA that would be incredibly frustrating if he's dropping the ball not just on organising outings, but on necessities like paying bills. Hopefully he grows up and takes some responsibility for sharing the adulting.

I feel for you on this thread. Relationships are hard at the best of times and it sounds like you have had to take on a vastly disproportionate share of the mental load.

I don’t think that you are being princess at all. I can imagine that your feelings are probably hurt that no real thought or imagination had gone into the choice. Whilst some might say he’s building up confidence or playing it safe - it feels like another symptom of his general malaise towards you and the relationship. I’m guessing if he’d looked at the menu and seen nothing you would be excited to try it would have been thoughtful of him to broaden the search. It’s also interesting that you mention that he’s not necessarily paying? Are you the main breadwinner or are you better at budgeting?

I have come from a very similar situation and tried to do as you have. Fortunately for me there was an issue that arose that I could not ignore and used to end the relationship. I have never looked back.

I cannot stress how much I loved being alone. Anything is easier when you are in control but then do not have to live with the resentment or responsibility for their feelings and organisation. It felt like a weight had lifted and I was happier mum around the children without his presence in the house.

I unexpectedly met someone else later on, that is everything that my ex wasn’t. I had no idea that relationships could be more equal. It took a lot for my brain to comprehend that what I had before was bare minimum and lazy.

It’s like the sunken costs fallacy. How much more of your precious time do you want to spend living like this? My experience was it went in cycles - you need to break it and live for yourself. You won’t look back.

You think it’s bliss but the first thing he’s done you’re unhappy with. How is that bliss? You’re contradicting yourself.

I wonder how many times he kept quiet at your suggestions, even though he thought they were meh?

I’m sure if he voiced that, you’d have said do it yourself. Which is what he might do if you say it to him.

Relationships shouldn’t be hard.