Shall I just go to the restaurant my DH booked or say something?

[reversegear]

For context we are in marriage counseling mostly for him being passive and leaving me to carry the load and me being the leader and stepping in, plus lots of other issues, but the lady said he needed to stop asking me what I want and be more decisive, she was also eluding to saying “I’ve looked at these three places, which would you prefer” she’s meaning real deep effort and thought.

Anyhow we have the meeting on Thursday and on Friday he’s like right we are out on Saturday night. Ok great that’s a start but when I said am I allowed to ask where, he gave me the name of the place we always go to and have been say 6-7 times, it’s lovely expensive restaurant but it’s the very easy simple go-to option and there isn’t much on the menu I fancy as they change it.

I feel really deflated, and a bit angry that’s he’s kind of just gone for something quick and easy, he’s not even sat down and looked at a new place.

i know this is part of the process, but everything in me wants to say something, and look at alternatives or just say don’t bother.

Or do you think I have to carry this and go along and the focus ny feeling with the marriage counselor?

For context he’s never booked anything.

I don't know why people are labelling it as the "lazy option," it obviously wasn't the lazy option the the 5 or 6 times the o.p rebooked it. I'd go with safe option...although obviously it wasn't...

I think you need to be more specific if you're bored with the same place.

Go on this date, and after when you thank him and say it was nice, suggest next time it might be good to try an Indian or Thai for a change, what does he think? And maybe make a suggestion 'how about x or y' if you're picky about menus. And leave it at that, he'll get the idea.

I really disagree with the lack of thought comment. He might really have thought about it and went oh that place that we love that would be perfect.

@reversegear

Not commenting on the restaurant issue specifically, but my almost ex husband was just like this. So incredibly passive, never initiated or booked a thing, at all. We would never have left the house or had days out, or children's activities, or holidays etc...jad I not sorted everything. He had no opinions on what to eat, food to cook, meals etc...i did it ALL. I gave him plenty of chances and then when I turned 50!realised I just couldn't see myself putting up with this (and lots of other things).for the rest of my life. It was exhausting. So said I wanted out of the marriage. Two years later we are still both here because guess what? He can't deal with it all and literally has no idea how to move forward/cope. Exhausting.

Anyway, I feel your pain. I used to really really envy friend's whose husband's had energy and initiative.

I have some sympathy with you as I have been/am in a similar relationship.
After many conversations and the experience of lockdown I decided that it was better to make sure I did some of the proactive planning or we would have a boring life. There was a lot of effort to set up ways he could remember to keep on top of some aspects of our life.
I did have to lead a lot of this but felt it was worth the groundwork.
For today go to the restaurant, hope to find something you fancy, acknowledge the fact that he booked it and suggest that you maybe try somewhere new next time.

No I would like someone else to make the decision sometimes.

It sounds like this isn't really about the restaurant at all. He's booked a restaurant that he has good reason to think you like - it's not reasonable to say that he should have read your mind and figured out your complex feelings about their menu changes and whatnot. If you want to save your marriage, try to have a good-humoured mindset about it.

You sound like a bit of a nightmare OP, his self confidence must be in the toilet if you constantly poo-poo whatever effort he makes. He can't win. Go to the restaurant and pretend to enjoy it, build him up and maybe he'll be more daring next time.

With all due respect you know nothing about this woman or what she might have endured for years. There is a very real possibility that what her OH has offered her is too little too late.

Potentially a little too late... but why then did the OP suggest therapy? They've had ONE therapy session, and he has tried to act on what was suggested.

I didn't...thats how you've decided to read it.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to question what I posted in the way I did, am I not allowed an opinion?

I'd say he's listened and taken some action but this is a whole new learning curve for him. I think what he does as a follow up will be more telling. What he books next will show if he's grasped the 'you need to try and make effort' sentiment or if he's just still following a basic instruction which shows no effort.

As you say, you are already checked out, and therefore possibly looking for reasons to confirm that you would be right to leave. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, it might just be too late now for anything he does to make a difference. And that’s partly on him for being so passive up until now. But given that you’ve organised the counselling I think you owe it to your marriage to at least try to see this as a fresh start, and that might mean putting aside the fact you’ve been to the restaurant multiple times. But moving forward I would want to see change. Supposing for arguments sake you agree that once per month he will initiate organising a date for you both, or some similar plan. You might want to say to him or explore in counselling that it would be nice if he researched different places, because trying new things is good for a relationship. If he can’t do that moving forward then that might help inform your decision what to do about the relationship. Obviously that’s not the only issue you both need to work on but it’s part of it. Are you giving this process a timescale OP?

That wouldn’t be good timing. I’d wait and see what his next decision produces and take it from there.

Thants my thinking after my mumsnet telling off as well!!

I am struggling to see if anywhere in your posts if he has always been passive even in the early days of your relationship (apologies if I have missed it) Or his own upbringing and family dynamic ? As that might give some insight.
It is difficult to see how to repair such a deep issue that clearly has a lot of emotion involved.

When you deal with someone who for whatever reason doesn’t carry any of them mental load, organising etc and actually physical carrying it can be exhausting for the other persons. The crux of it is finding out why they don’t.

I have an adult Step son. I came into his life late teens. He was clearly neurodiverse but refused to discuss it - which I respected. He was living independently from his dad (has degree and full time job etc) but his dad was going round daily and cooking for him, organising him, cleaning for him etc it was bloody exhausting. DH didn’t know if he couldn’t do it, didn’t want to do it, was too lazy to do it, or too lazy etc

Expectations were laid deep down and entrenched. Eg DH and me did all the organising eg we told him what night we were going to x place to eat, booked it, picked him up, paid for it listened to his conversation for 2 hours, paid and gave him a lift home. If we didn’t organise it AND pay he didn’t come.

It has been a long process over the last decade to move him out of this. Due to something that happened externally he agreed to get a diagnosis and was diagnosed with autism which was clear. Various people say people with autism can’t be changed. Speaking as someone who is myself autistic we had to find out what was the autism and what was ingrained routine and what was laziness.

DH had organised all trips out at this point for over 20 years. Organisation all of his cleaning (let’s face it no one likes this), he had no social life, no hobbies or interests or social skill except trains - at which he talks at your at length.

We started in a loving and supportive way eg we talked about money and finances and he needing to adult up at 25 plus. We we go to the pub you are buying the drinks. DH had to restrain himself all the time and wait. Eg standing at the bar, he always paid we had to wait uncomfortably wait and order our drinks and go to the table etc and leave him to pay etc or whatever. Most of the time we explained what we were doing and why.

Over years we have now built up to him organising a trip for him and his dad from start to finish and booking it all.

He was reluctant and scared. He started small day trips out. He started taking to DH to the steam train place where he goes to watch trains and DH had to say - no I don’t like trains but I had a nice day with you and it was organised well. He had to sit on his hands - we had to talk through things etc eg fear - what happens if you don’t book? Or it rains all day? Or everything getting cash for a car park.

I appreciate this is your DH but if I can give you hope….
our adult step son with quite severe (on a scale of ASC) who previously didn’t even flush a toilet without being told, he did the following today:
he arrived at 8am and took our 12 year old Horseriding. He drove him there and back. He took him out for a cooked breakfast.
He took him to track and got pizza and salad. He took him to the park and played with him. He took him swimming and drove him to and from and got him a snack and we got back at 4 pm. 2 years ago he could not of actually done it - he would have stuck his younger brother aged 12 in front of the tv all day and I would of found he hadn’t been taken out or fed etc.

Your DH is not a child even an adult one. And it is so hard not to organise. I had an ex that criticising my cleaning of the house so I stopped - that was deliberate. Why do something if someone is going to rescue it?

I appreciate my adult step son is not a child and I’m not saying you need in any way to tolerate this and indeed leaving is a valid option.

I can only speak from experience with everything our adult step son did I let him lead, let him fail, and yes there were words along the way. Some hard words say with love and sometimes a bollocking. The time which he came around and used our washing machine without asking (and it leaked as he didn’t close the door properly so an inch of water in the kitchen) and threw my clean and wet clothes from said washing machine on a dirty kitchen floor didn’t let the dog out (who weed and pooped on the floor) and then used my tumble dryer on the hottest day of the year was a day I truly lost my shit and will be remembered. But he actually talks about it now as my ‘learning day’ DH was very gentle gentle gentle and He won’t do - so we organise it and o said to him Hang on? We are 35 years older what happens when we aren’t here. We aren’t helping.

I get it is exhausting. Praise, but yes it needs to be not a one hit wonder either eg I booked the hotel. Ok what next? Men as a whole and teenagers don’t understand the mental load either and it is huge. Looking after yourself is hard, a house x10 times as hard or an animal etc or a car

You aren’t doing him any favours by living like this. Is he lazy? Is he ND? Is he conditioned? Is he entitled? You know the answers I don’t.

please forgive my typing I have a broken wrist!!

I haven’t put a timeframe for fairness as I’ve been mostly blaming myself and my life stage and hormones and thinking it was me that had changed and now I realise I’ve got that all balanced I feel great outside of this marriage and actually this isn’t maybe a completely me issue, it would be unfair to suddenly say you’ve got 3 months to change when I’ve been working on myself for 5+ years.

I just somehow wish someone had given him and me the heads up that my life changes mean he needs to be part of it else the resentment stacks.

I think his next decision (unprompted by you) will tell you more about where is head is at than this first attempt. It’s quite strange to me to read all these posts saying poor man he tried, as if he is a child and the groundless accusations that you’re some kind of despot.

To be fair I expected and maybe needed that, I’m ok with being told I’m maybe in the wrong, else who else would share on Munsnet of all places. I wanted brutally honest and I got it in spades 😳 I agree I’m avoiding feeling like I’m testing him but I do think next time if it happens will be interesting.

This relationship is never going to work because you can't change him into a different person.

@Onebigargh that’s such a lovely and long reply I’ll take some time to read and respond fully but I’m just back from walking dogs and showing etc so don’t want to be flippant. ND is a high possibility on both of our side but I kind of want to explore where we are right now without using or self diagnosing, he’s also not interested in that conversation.

The more you post the more I think you’re married to a replica of my husband. Only yours is worse - mine is responsible and wouldn’t let the insurance lapse. But if I voice disagreement, however gently and carefully, it’s taken as an attack and he flies off the handle.

I’m still mindblown that so many PPs think your H deserves credit for doing the bare minimum on this “task”. He’s an adult married man who holds down a job and is capable of organising and deciding at work, just not at home apparently. But he’s being praised as though he’s a little boy doing his best at something scary. The infantilisation of adult men and the concept that wives should look after them, guide them and praise them for doing very little seems very prevalent.

Why do you consider that saying something, or going to the restaurant, are mutually exclusive?

I’m not sure what that means or what the question is?

MSAmerica takes rather a literal approach to posts. The premise of your title is one choice or the other, and she is not one for nuance to be found in your full post or follow up posts.