Girls at DD’s school cannot wear socks because men and boys feel uncomfortable

[Eastie77Returns]

DD’s school has placed a ban on girls wearing socks due to persistent issues with girls wearing skirts that are too short and not the school’s regulation kilts. According to the e-mail sent to parents, girls wearing socks with said short skirts has resulted in some “members of the school community” feeling uncomfortable. When the issue was raised further by some parents, the (male) Deputy made it clear that it was essentially unfair to male pupils, and presumably teachers, to be made to feel awkward when girls undergarments were visible to them. There have also been issues with boys making suggestive comments to girls in short skirts.

I support the school enforcing school uniform policy but hate the fact that 12 year old DD and her friends are already being policed as to what they can or cannot wear because…men. DD hates the thick black tights she now has to wear. She always wore the correct length skirt and knee high socks.

The situation will apparently be reviewed ahead of the warmer months. I just feel this reinforces the view that girls & women need to ensure they dress in a way that doesn’t attract male attention but boys are not learning that inappropriate comments and behaviour towards a girl because of the way she dresses is completely unacceptable.

And this is how girls grow into entitled women. They are responsible for how their behaviour affects other people. It’s nothing to do with blaming a woman for being the victim of an assault either. That’s really unfair.

Blanket rules don’t feel fair to well behaved students, but it is fairly commonplace in schools and nothing to do with misogyny or entitled boys. And actually, yes, boys ARE entitled to say they feel uncomfortable. Let’s not pretend that someone (boy, man OR woman) not wanting to see a girls underwear is somehow odd. It’s completely normal to feel uncomfortable by that.

By way of an update: a few parents asked to speak with the Deputy to discuss the new rule. A request for a meeting was refused but the HT sent out another e-mail stating that she understood concerns but the policy will remain in place because the small number of girls who repeatedly reoffend are causing safeguarding issues due to potential unintended exposure and she is aware that unfortunately regulation skirts are being altered at home.

It’s interesting that the misbehaviour of a small number of girls who make other students and teachers feel uncomfortable has resulted in a change of uniform for every single female pupil. Yet the behaviour of a small number of boys who make female pupils and teachers feel uncomfortable (the boys making inappropriate comments and harassing girls) has not led to any kind of collective punishment for boys. And nor should it. But it speaks volumes that the Deputy’s response to the behaviour of those boys misbehaving was “well boys will be boys” and the response to 10 or so girls out of 400 misbehaving was “let’s punish the other 390 girls as well”.

Interesting point @Eastie77Returns about the boys. Have the school not put in any place PHSE to address misogyny (Andrew Tate / red pill / dude bro culture) over the last few months???

I’m not entirely sure what’s covered in PHSE to be honest. From what I’ve seen in the curriculum info, they do cover issues around relationships, sex, consent but I haven’t seen anything to suggest they specifically address misogyny. The HT sends out behaviour reminders that include the “Be Kind” mantra which, let’s be honest, is an expectation for girls.

After the success of Adolescence they did send out a frankly terrifying guide explaining what different text emoticons mean (red pill etc). It was a revelation to discover kids use seemingly innocuous emoticons to refer to an incel or joke about anal sex😳😱

10-12 girls out of 400 is 2.5-3%. So the 97-97.5% of girls not breaking the rules get punished. Still not fair. I'm sure teachers waste time enforcing other rules but still don't punish the other kids behaving themselves.

I know this is an older thread now but I'm bisexual & I think it's telling that, at least ime, lesbians who like feminine clothes like skirts etc don't tend to dress in such a revealing way.
Imo this strengthens the argument that it's done at least partly, to appeal to men. Women are less preoccupied with the visual aspect of sexuality (as a general rule) so people trying to attract women are less likely to show a lot of skin. Whereas straight women and gay men are more likely to wear tight or revealing clothing due to who they want to attract, at least partly.

Do you think that's right? Language like 'slag'?

Well you might argue that women in short skirts are trying to attract men (although I can genuinely say if I wear a short skirt that is not personally my intention, I’m just wearing an item of clothing that I like…) but that wasn’t really the point of this thread when I started it. DD never wears short skirts but she is being punished because of the small number of girls in her year who do. I started the thread to ask if people thought that was fair.

It was derailed by people commenting that young girls are responsible if grown men feel aroused looking at them (not sure where the line is drawn, is an 11 year old girl responsible? An 8 year old who attracts the attention of a paedophile?) women who wore short skirts to the office back in the day were proper slags and a mother who promised to raise hell if her son had an erection at school whilst walking behind an inappropriately dressed girl. It escalated quickly!

If it’s a child the responsibility is the parents, we’re all cozy on mum‘s net, but there are some parents that like it.

If the girls who shorten their skirts are doing it to attract the attention of the boys, how do you explain why the girls at an-girls school also shorten their skirts? Is it from a herd instinct (I hesitate to call it a fashion choice) or are they simply rebelling against a rule they feel is stifling their individual choices? Strangely, my daughter, who went to a mixed school, was part of a group of girls who slid down the zips on their skirts to make them appear longer. As it was a private school, girls whose skirts were deemed too short were escorted to the school shop, fitted for a new skirt and the bill sent to their parents!

I don't get this at all because when I was at school we all wore socks, girls and boys.

It’s not the socks that are the issue!

But socks aren't banned. They can wear trousers with socks or a skirt with tights.

She’s not saying if she thinks it’s right. She’s just saying what other people said. Ask them if they think it’s right.

Boys and men absolutely should not be commenting and misogyny needs to be addressed in schools. But why would any parent or girl want a male to be able to see their underwear, regardless if it provokes an aroused or uncomfortable reaction. Is it acceptable then for a boy to look, as long as he doesn’t say anything? Or does he have to make sure he doesn’t even glance in that direction in case he’s labelled a pervert?

Makes so much more sense to have a blanket rule of tights, shorts or trousers imo. There are other clothing options that cover all comfort/weather eventualities that don’t involve being able to see anyone’s underwear or bum cheeks.

This is where boys are stupid. If they hadn't been making rude comments they'd still be able to see the girls knickers.

Why do you think they want to see them?