Girls at DD’s school cannot wear socks because men and boys feel uncomfortable

[Eastie77Returns]

DD’s school has placed a ban on girls wearing socks due to persistent issues with girls wearing skirts that are too short and not the school’s regulation kilts. According to the e-mail sent to parents, girls wearing socks with said short skirts has resulted in some “members of the school community” feeling uncomfortable. When the issue was raised further by some parents, the (male) Deputy made it clear that it was essentially unfair to male pupils, and presumably teachers, to be made to feel awkward when girls undergarments were visible to them. There have also been issues with boys making suggestive comments to girls in short skirts.

I support the school enforcing school uniform policy but hate the fact that 12 year old DD and her friends are already being policed as to what they can or cannot wear because…men. DD hates the thick black tights she now has to wear. She always wore the correct length skirt and knee high socks.

The situation will apparently be reviewed ahead of the warmer months. I just feel this reinforces the view that girls & women need to ensure they dress in a way that doesn’t attract male attention but boys are not learning that inappropriate comments and behaviour towards a girl because of the way she dresses is completely unacceptable.

Exactly.

If I’d have realised wearing a micro mini showing your knickers would be a gateway to wear trousers I would have done it 😂 I so wanted to wear trousers to school instead of a skirt it would have been worth the cold legs and bum. (And I was a girly girl but was not allowed trousers back then, which seems crazy to me now).

That's interesting. Why would you feel uncomfortable?

For me, I would want to make sure she knew her knickers and/or bra were on display but if she did, and was fine with it, then I'd just go about my day and not stare at her underwear.

It's not difficult to just not look at something that makes you uncomfortable. And that should apply for men or women.

How d'ya know Dave from accounts isnt gay? 🤣

Do you feel the same about any teenage daughters you have?
If they’re happy for people to see their thong as they walk upstairs then go for it - that others may not want to see is not her problem?

So you honestly believe that anybody should have the right to dress (or not) however they like - including putting their underwear on view - and it's up to other people to just avoid looking if they don't want to see it?

So if a man came into work - even a teacher in a school - or walked down the street wearing just a shirt and his Y-fronts, he would have the absolute moral right to do so - as long as he realised that everybody could clearly see his pants and was happy about that - and it would be shaming and totally unreasonable if anybody complained or asked him to put some trousers on? Really?

Again with this charade, ridiculous uniforms, etc. If you (general you) can't manage to teach your kids normal conduct, self-respect, explain that half of your ass hanging out is not appropriate attire (anywhere, not just school) - then just put everyone in trousers and be done with it.

All the rest of the world manages somehow. No uniforms in my country at all, or if there are, then it's jumpers/blazers, and the rest is up to you. All the girls I've seen were in jeans, and boys too. No policing socks, shoe colours, hair bobbles and other absolutely pointless, petty bullshit. No butts hanging out either.

If someone came in with their skirt above their waist and their tongue on show, she'd be told she looks like a tramp, to find some self-respect and to pull her skirt down. In no uncertain terms. By a teacher. Kicked out of class, told not to come back, and parents called if not done. No pussyfooting with their bullshit 'rights'.

Jesus christ.

I don’t think it’s difficult at all. There was no difficult in enforcing rules in my school, or the school my kids went to and only left fairly recently so it isn’t a question of generational differences. It’s just a question of leadership.

@LuciferTheLightBringer that's the way to do it!! None of this fussy footing around about the "kids rights" everyone else has the right not to have to look at someone who thinks walking around with their arses hanging out, while pretending its perfectly normal!!

No uniforms in my country at all, or if there are, then it's jumpers/blazers, and the rest is up to you.

If you’re not even in the UK, why are you getting so angry about how our uniforms are worn?

All the rest of the world, @LuciferTheLightBringer ? China, Japan and many other countries have strict uniforms.

Wearing a mini skirt and flashing you knickers going up the stairs isn't comparable to not putting on a skirt at all.

The world is full of things that people might feel uncomfortable seeing. Unless it's gross indecency (which is an established line in society) the onus is on the viewer to look/move away. Not to try and police everything around them.

My friend has a colostomy bag - should they avoid wearing crop tops/low rise trousers so that people who (unfairly) feel uncomfortable looking at it don't have to avert their gaze?

If I were to have a facial disfigurement, should I walk around in a mask so that people who (unfairly) feel uncomfortable looking at me don't have to experience a moment of discomfort?

A school's dress code should be in place to enforce the uniform/homogenous image they wish to project. There is no need at all for the school to bring feeling uncomfortable into the argument. It's essentially giving the green light to the disgraceful attitude of "well didn't you see what she was wearing, she probably deserved it".

I think the issue here is that teachers don’t have time to keep checking skirt length and policing the few. Around our way it’s not the few. It’s a lot of inappropriately dressed girls showing their pants. It’s just not ok. It wouldn’t be ok for boys either. So it’s not a men thing. It’s a dress thing.

so I can kinda see what they have a blanket rule. I know it’s annoying for the ones who are wearing skirts properly. But teachers have enough to deal with

So the ones who are saying this is ridiculous, let's e mail the school blah blah are just making stuff up?

I think the framing of 'you need to do X because Y makes the boys uncomfortable' is the totally avoidable issue the school have created! Presuming this is what was said and it's not been lost in translation between the students and parents.

@Newstart26 thats not really the point. Having a facial disfigurement or a colostomy bag is not a choice.
Parading around semi naked IS a choice

Exactly. In fact it makes everyone uncomfortable so why focus on males. It’s not appropriate wear for school or workplace.

If we're going to control the environment instead of taking responsibility for our own eyes, where is the line and who makes that decision?

I have friends in my circle who are uncomfortable seeing women's legs at all - they get on with their lives and just don't look - but should we all instead wear only trousers/skirts to the floor at all times to appease them. If not, why not? It is after all a choice to wear shorts and knee length skirts.

I’m not getting her to wear trousers because she doesn’t want to. For now she is wearing school approved skirts and uncomfortable tights in hot weather because the school cannot discipline the few girls who wear inappropriate attire. All this talk of teachers not being able to police pupils. I mean we are talking about a few girls (amongst hundreds) who need to be taken aside, made to wear an appropriate skirt and placed in detention. The girls concerned will soon get the message. I don’t know why posters are behaving as if this is some kind of Herculean task!

I hope you have complained about the Deputy Head.

If boys were routinely showing off their arse cracks, bum holes and ball sacks there would be a similar letter going home about them. The people at fault are the girls with the short skirts.

Nudity makes anyone feel uncomfortable in a professional place. Female teachers don't want to see flaps either.

They’re saying don’t punish all the girls for the actions of a few.

Yep

Doubtless someone will be along soon to say you're making it up, but this actually happened to me after i'd interviewed someone who seemed to think "doing a Sharon Stone" might help her chances among the men on the panel

I mentioned it - in much more diplomatic terms - during feedback and had her mum on the phone going berserk

No one is showing ‘flaps, arse cracks, bum holes and ball sacks’, get your mind out of the gutter.

The boys aren't (well occasionally arse cracks and are told).

Girls otoh do show flaps at times. Accidentally of course, but they have to walk upstairs and people have to walk behind them. Girls are similarly told.